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Hello Dakka,
I'm trying to figure out how best to field these 10 assault marine models I have. My current plan is to put them in an allied Raven Guard detachment with a chaplain (primary: Imperial Fists), but I wanted to solicit opinions before I paint them up.

For vanilla SM, it seems to me that RG is the way to go, for the double jump pack use and reroll on hammer of the gods. A chaplain seems essential for any eligible, melee-oriented space marine unit. Although Shrike is obviously better himself, allies can't have more than 1 HQ, and my gut says the force multiplier is better than the single tough guy. Altogether, my guess as to the best vanilla assault marine setup would be 10 marines w/ 2x flamer, veteran w/ power sword, chaplain w/ jump pack. This unit costs a smidge more than 3 TFCs and puts out 44 attacks in the 1st round of combat. Largely at S4 AP-, with only a 3+ save, this is not by any means a "powerhouse" but the question at heart here isn't "is it the best use of points?" but rather "is it the best use of assault marines?"

Unfortunately I only have the SM codex, so I can't compare to Blood Angels or any other book's assault marines (nor do I know what special rules and characters are available in the other SM codices). I'm hoping that someone can provide some advise in that regard. Would one of these other books' assault marines make a better allied unit?

Thanks for your thoughts & opinions

There are other options.

SW sky claws get an exstra attack on the charge if I remeber corect, but they are fast attack and only WS3.

Blood angels have scooring assault marines, they can also grab 2 specialist weapons. I would recomend this. Plus the red and the yellow go good together.

You're certainly on the right lines with RG tactics and the chaplain.

In terms of usage, then you should be looking to take out weak backfield units that you've softened up with shooting. Things like IG blobs without inquisitors, fire warriors, devastators and necron warriors are all valid targets. Avoid dedicated CC units and you should get quite a bit of mileage out of them.

As for the loadout, I'd drop the power sword on the sgt. The Chaplain should be able to do plenty of at-initiative killing with the power maul, so your best bet for the sarge is either meltabombs for an anti-tank backup or a power axe for some AP2. That said, though, if AM are up against something with a 2+, they're probably in the wrong place or already doomed. SM have better options for anti-2+.

If you can, get another CC unit in your list somewhere then it will help massively, as you can throw more direct threats at the enemy so they don't focus on your one unit of AM.

I can’t speak for the other codexes, but you’ve got vanilla spot on. I field Ultramarines, not RG, but that’s who I am. Chaplain with the JP, Vet sarge with a sword, and a flamer. I like a 5 man squad. I find they are easier to keep in cover when moving up the field, and hit hard enough to get the job done.

They might not be the MVP of most games, but I find they pull their weight. The only time I’ve regretted bringing them is when I deep struck a 10 man squad once. That went poorly.

Unfortunately, bikes are so better than jumppacks that you hardly see assault marines with jump packs no more.
Bikes give +1 toughness, twin-linked boltgun, better speed, difterrain ignore, jink save, relentless. For 4 points above a jumppack.

However, assault marines are great when you take them in a min squad dropped by a free pod with 2 flamers - they'll cost just 95 pts and unless the enemy is heavy on interceptor, they'r gona be great backfield opressors.

You could dump the assault packs and take an assault squad in a drop pod. It's a free pod, and you are still in assault by T2. That'd help get you in the backfield, anyway. If you played that, you might be better off going Salamanders and giving the AM flamers, or go Iron Hands to make them a bit more survivable, otherwise stick to good ol' ultramarines.

Reclusiarch: power fist; jump pack. 160

10 Assault Marines: Space Marine Sergeant (power weapon); 2× flamer; jump packs. 215

375 points

Expensive but pretty affective if you know it's limitations.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Reclusiarch: power fist; jump pack. 160

10 Assault Marines: Space Marine Sergeant (power weapon); 2× flamer; jump packs. 215

375 points

Expensive but pretty affective if you know it's limitations.

That's pretty good, actually. While it is more expensive than the RG option, you fulfil the troops requirement so save 55 points minimum there. You also get a puncher chaplain (Reclusiarchs can be real monsters in CC) and still get the flamers, mobility and CC power. You also get the option of throwing in some other BA kit, and I imagine something like a Furioso dread in a pod or a bast and shoot AC Baal Pred would compliment the AM nicely and is otherwise unavailable. You also unlock a potential JP honour guard squad (flying plasma/melta) and Sang Priests to give the AM FNP.

do you use both your primary attachment HQs? if you dont you could always take a primary Chaplin and then take shrike.

BA libbies are better than reclusiarchs running away.

Joining a non-RG chaplain would confer zealot, but the unit would lose part of the benefit of their RG chapter tactics (the part about using jump packs in 2 phases).

Sorry I don't know much about BA. Can you expound on why lib is better? Or did I not understand your meaning?

I have to say Thanks OP. I am considering some vanilla AM in a pod at the moment. I play Imp. Fist primary as well. This thread is interesting. It is answering some of my questions.

I am going with a drop pod cause I am trying a drop army. This adds another pod to my list to keep my drop pod assault as decently sized as possible.

I was thinking of using the AM in a pod as well as a Ironclad set up for close-ish combat. Give my opponent something they have to look at instead of the AM, since face it, regular Marines are kinda squishy.

Libby can provide prescience, which is better than the reclusiarch's ability. And can get an AP 2 weapon.

Martel732 wrote:
Libby can provide prescience, which is better than the reclusiarch's ability. And can get an AP 2 weapon.

While prescience is much better than the Reclusiarch's ability, the Reclusiarch is far more capable in combat (which is the point of taking ASM with jump packs) than the Librarian. This sort of unit IMO needs to hit hard. A Reclusiarch with a Crozius and PF hits very hard consistently.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Libby can provide prescience, which is better than the reclusiarch's ability. And can get an AP 2 weapon.

While prescience is much better than the Reclusiarch's ability, the Reclusiarch is far more capable in combat (which is the point of taking ASM with jump packs) than the Librarian. This sort of unit IMO needs to hit hard. A Reclusiarch with a Crozius and PF hits very hard consistently.

I agree. When it comes down to it, the Reclusiarch adds a captain-level beatstick to the squad, while a libby is far less directly powerful. If we're going with maximising the power from a single squad, the Reclusiarch is the way to go. As for AP2, I think that on the whole, AM should be avoiding units with 2+ saves, as they tend to be the kind of dedicated CC units that AM should be trying to avoid anyway. And as mentioned above, if you're really wanting AP2, a power fists on the Reclusiarch will be enough.

The wounds from prescience will add up much faster than the extra AP 4 attack the Reclusiarch gets. Plus, the libby is much cheaper.

And, in addition, if you run into trouble a Force Weapon can come in handy. It also makes the squad more resilient against Psychic Powers.

An AP 2 force weapon the way I roll my libbies.

I know this is slightly off topic, but can Vanguard Vets work with Black Templars Chapter tactics, I've thought about adding a Raven Guard allied force, or even a Blood angels as mentioned above, but I've already built them.

I'm not a competitive player but I don't want to be shooting myself in the foot so to speak. sorry and thanks

There's nothing in the rules that says you can't, and there are no special rules conferred by Black Templars Chapter Tactics that are lost on vanguard vets. They can roll the extra d6 when running or d3 when sweeping advance, and they get +1 on deny the witch. If you meant "can I make a crusader squad with my vanguard vets" then no, because a crusader squad is a type of unit, defined on page 119.

That all said, I'm pretty sure that there is fluff justification in the codex for fielding a Black Templars detachment w/ Raven Guard allies, and having them all look like BTs. I think it says something like detachments that are on campaigns together will sometimes wear the same colors for the campaign. I can't find it in the codex but I'm "sure" I read it there...

quick reply is not my friend.

I just wondered if it was an okay Idea, I was thinking about just using them as Raven guard allies but I don't want to confuse my opponent by having my allies the same colour as my primary detachment.
Thanks for replying

ive been debating what the best way to run the Sarge is assault squads. In ur set-up with the vet status and the power sword, the Sarge comes in at 42 points. Thats alot of points for a single wound model with 4 attacks on the charge at I4 and with only WS 4.

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:
ive been debating what the best way to run the Sarge is assault squads. In ur set-up with the vet status and the power sword, the Sarge comes in at 42 points. Thats alot of points for a single wound model with 4 attacks on the charge at I4 and with only WS 4.

Remember that assault marines don’t want fair fights. You are mugging backfield campers and HS picks. If there is something that can snuff a vet sarge with a powersword, you use those fancy jump packs and get the heck out of dodge! Then get on the vox with someone with a plasma cannon to remove whatever it was from the map, because that’s not something that’s going to be resolved with close combat.

But gearing up the sarge turns the assault marines from “I tar pit your HS for a few round while we get into a slap-fight” to “Kill it, move on"

However you kit them, keep in mind that they're bullies, not a front line, and they can do amazing things. I usually have a squad as UM, but then I avoind bringing my own allies for meta and fluff reasons.