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Two test games in, feels like Tyranid assault is dead in the water. But Tyranid shooting on the other hand is improved. -_- i like shooty nids but sucks when I need to decline challenges cuz my guys can't take on characters from enemy armies. This is a revision of my first 'test' list which had more assault elements in it, switched those out for more shooting. So anyone else play testing their nids to figure out the best way to 'evolve' their army?

2000 Pts - Tyranids Roster - Doubles

HQ:
2 Tyrant Guard, 100 pts

2 Tyrant Guard, 100 pts

1 Hive Tyrant, 215 pts
Bonesword & Lashwhip; Venom Cannon; Electroshock Grubs

1 Hive Tyrant, 215 pts
Bonesword & Lashwhip; Venom Cannon; Electroshock Grubs

Elites:
2 Hive Guard, 110 pts

2 Hive Guard, 110 pts

Troops:
10 Genestealer, 170 pts
Toxin Sacs
1 Broodlord, 70 pts
Toxin Sacs

10 Genestealer, 170 pts
Toxin Sacs
1 Broodlord, 70 pts
Toxin Sacs

10 Genestealer, 170 pts
Toxin Sacs
1 Broodlord, 70 pts
Toxin Sacs

Heavy Support:
1 Tyrannofex, 215 pts
Acid Spray; Stinger Salvo; Electroshock Grubs; Regeneration

1 Tyrannofex, 215 pts
Acid Spray; Stinger Salvo; Electroshock Grubs; Regeneration

Total Roster Cost: 2000


I find that the lack of flesh hooks on the key assault units seals the deal on assault. The high initiative gets shitted on by enemies hiding in terrain.

Tyrannofexes are quite nice now.

Electroshock Grubs is awesome!


My original list had more upgrades on the walk tyrants Indescribable Horror; Old Adversary which were largely useless.
Aswell as another 10 man unit of genestealers with toxin sacs, which like the rest of the stealers got stuck striking at i1 thanks to terrain.
Also had adrenal glands on the tyrannofexes which proved useful in getting them to the enemy faster to use the flamers thanks to fleet but i feel like maybe it is not absolutely necessary tho it was nice.

So shooty Nids with no firepower and tiny threat range. I have to say that is a novel approach.

To be honest I don't understand a single decision you've made with this list.

Why not Dakka Flyrants over you more expensive slow ones with a single shot?

Why 240 genestealer units? Take them at minimum with Broodlord for 130 for pinning spam or take something else.

Hive guard? Just why? Zoathropes are the way forward.

Only two HS when you're trying to do shooting and none of the shooty choices? (Biovores, Exocrine, Dakkafexes).

This is not shooty Nids at all.

I think you didn't read my post properly this was my assault list, and i revised it adding more shooty elements to it.

Makes more sense now?

Do you run your assault guys out in front of your army?

No

 FlingitNow wrote:
So shooty Nids with no firepower and tiny threat range. I have to say that is a novel approach.

To be honest I don't understand a single decision you've made with this list.

Why not Dakka Flyrants over you more expensive slow ones with a single shot?

Why 240 genestealer units? Take them at minimum with Broodlord for 130 for pinning spam or take something else.

Hive guard? Just why? Zoathropes are the way forward.

Only two HS when you're trying to do shooting and none of the shooty choices? (Biovores, Exocrine, Dakkafexes).

This is not shooty Nids at all.

I agree with you about tactics, but in the future consider stating your position in a less condescending way.

How do you keep the enemy from shooting you to bits while you're moving into threat range? There's a reason most of the Tyranid lists on here are either using Mawlocs or FMCs. You don't even have venomthropes to give you a cover save. Against your list I'd just focus fire on the tyrants and eat the shots from the T-fexes until your synapse was gone, then mopping up the genestealers on the objectives should be no problem.

The problem here is tbh it isnt an assault list. You got Genestealrs, a Crowd control or outflank late game unit, and Shooty Tyrants with Tyranofexs... worse off the two forces have very little synergy =[

SaJeel wrote:
The problem here is tbh it isnt an assault list. You got Genestealrs, a Crowd control or outflank late game unit, and Shooty Tyrants with Tyranofexs... worse off the two forces have very little synergy =[

I must say, you sound as if you hold a license of authority on a very new almost 'mint' condition one might say Tyranid codex.
Where in their description are genestealers labeled as 'crowd control outflank LATE game' unit?

Hell I would love to know how do you even control outflank to apparently always arrive in 'late game' ?? Last i checked this is random on a 3+

Shooty Tyrants? Is my tyrant wielding two guns? I reckon i have a mixed tyrant with combat and shooting capabilities but perhaps you are viewing a different buld. And why exactly can't he be used with tyrannofexes?

Now a better point i can understand here is that you don't think there's synergy or any 'obvious' use for the units working together. Perhaps you enjoy your lists the kind that you plop down and it plays itself. I can't say I dislike these kinds of lists myself

But as I would think myself and the rest of you Nid players (if you are actually doing any playing at all and not just running theory hammer) is that we are all play testing different things currently and trying to figure out WHERE the synergy in this new book lies and how we can mix and match different combos to think otuside the box and see what we can stumble upon.

At the very least...that's my current goal. So to be 100% honest I purposely avoided the 'auto-include' units like my winged devourer tyrants which everyone and their grandmother is using now even more so than before, and tervigons, and such other units. Because I want to test out how the stuff that sucked (and still seems to suck) has changed if anything, and if they can somehow be more productive.

As i mentioned in my first post tho...assault seems to be pretty much dead for nids. even more so than before

As i mentioned in my first post tho...assault seems to be pretty much dead for nids. even more so than before

Although of course it is not. It is still alive and well, indeed in order to win with Nids you need to get into combat. You just can't afford to walk slowly across the board into your opponents guns (the approach you seem to be taking).

I was wondering what type of unit Genestealers are? If you outflank them the earliest they do anything is turn 3 (meaning mid to late game is when they'll have an impact). They are certainly not a main line combat unit. Personally I see them only as a distraction pinning unit.

If you're trying to find Synergy look what would help each other. Look at when your units hit home and what weapons want to shoot them. Try to make your opponents target priorities difficult and try to ensure he can't deal with your army piecemeal. You need MTO and someway to reduce the casualties you take as you get across the board.

Lots of stuff that used to suck doesn't anymore (Lictors, Zoanthropes, Warriors, Genestealers, Mawlocs, Carnifexes, Tyrannofexes, Biovores, Deathleaper). A lot of stuff that used to be auto include or good now suck (Hiveguard, Tervigons, Trygons, Swarmlord). The rest sort of stayed the same or changed in function without huge change in effectiveness.

Warriors - largely the same
Genestealers - the same

Do you still own your 5th ed book? Run a comparison perhaps?

And lets not kid ourselves nids can be played in waves which is a very common approach that most nid players are familiar with, infact this used to be the predominant way to play nids until 5th ed book DEMANDED this 'synergy' crap term that gets tossed around left and right nowadays.

But fine i'll bite...where is the synergy in my list?

Flexibility.

Stealers while identical to their previous incarnation are very flexible units in their use and for the enemy to hide in terrain while not requiring synapse as its biggest seller.

Hive guard got worst, but still invaluable if facing tau/eldar vehicles whom love claiming a 4+ cover save. No other range unit that we have is able to deal with those tanks the way a hive guard can. Furthermore these are the 2 predominantly competitive armies currently

Tyrannofexes with acid spray are made of win because again the most predominant armies are tau/eldar currently

Mixed tyrants are there to provide synapse and mostly for play testing (same as the stealers) and because I wanted flexible shooty units that could fight and shoot.

So where's the synergy? In that i got enough flexibility to deal with a wide range of opponents. The only gaping hole is really the lack of anti-air

There's not much else that i don't have an answer to. If so please point them out

And let me restate...i am play testing things as should you.

Warriors are more important due to Synapse and the decreased points of MCs means you can spam far more of them for target saturation of S8 targets. These two things make warriors better.

Genestealers have completely changed. They have an actual effective function now. They could not force pinning checks on the enemy at -2 LD before which is basically their main real role now.

The fact you think these units have stayed the same speaks volumes.

Stealers are not a flexible unit, as you've got them they are just massive point sinks. Your slow moving mish mash Tyrants aren't flexible just inefficient. They are not really any better in combat than the shooty ones. You get the ID and +3 I but the former makes little difference and the later is often irrelevant due to no defensive grenades.

Tau rarely run vehicles other than Skyrays and they'll have spent their payload by the time the Hiveguard are in range. Hive guard are still good against Serpent Spam though.

Tfexes are awesome I've never stated they were a poor option.

So you're looking for synergy by taking lots of inefficient options and having no AA.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Warriors are more important due to Synapse and the decreased points of MCs means you can spam far more of them for target saturation of S8 targets. These two things make warriors better.

Genestealers have completely changed. They have an actual effective function now. They could not force pinning checks on the enemy at -2 LD before which is basically their main real role now.

The fact you think these units have stayed the same speaks volumes.

Stealers are not a flexible unit, as you've got them they are just massive point sinks. Your slow moving mish mash Tyrants aren't flexible just inefficient. They are not really any better in combat than the shooty ones. You get the ID and +3 I but the former makes little difference and the later is often irrelevant due to no defensive grenades.

Tau rarely run vehicles other than Skyrays and they'll have spent their payload by the time the Hiveguard are in range. Hive guard are still good against Serpent Spam though.

Tfexes are awesome I've never stated they were a poor option.

So you're looking for synergy by taking lots of inefficient options and having no AA.

Warriors got better because MCs got cheaper? wtf no.

Genestealers are genestealers not the same as a broodlord.

Broodlord got a cool reliable power, but is he improved on previous broodlord? Depends. Previous broodlord has 2 powers and access to rulebook powers which were very good, and even his base powers had use in challenges. So getting a reliable power is just like a rebalance not exactly an improvement on the broodlord. Considering he had the potential to land iron arm, warp speed, endurance in his previous incarnation all of which are 'better' than the horror on the fact that they are a blessing and can't be denied.

The fact that your argument ignores such things is enough for me to dismiss the entirety of your 'expertise' with this new codex.

Also you state that 'tau rarely take vehicles other than skyrays' excuse me, didn't know you were also the ultimate authority on playing Tau and that you had banned ALL tau players worldwide from fielding other vehicles.

In my area I see, skyrays, devilfishes (warfish loadout), and hammerheads all the time. Forgive me for having a different meta than yours?

The warriors got target saturation from the MCs.

The stealers got a new function. Those biomancy powers that if you got lucky helped the Broodlord, now they are guaranteed a power that helps the entire army from turn 1. That is a massive change.

The reason Tau rarely take vehicles is because Tau vehicles aren't a great option. If they are taking them bonus they don't have a competitive list. Build a competitive list that can deal with competitive lists and don't worry about weak lists just beat them...