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I had two occurances of this at a tournament last weekend.  Unit A is in cover.  They assault unit B in the open.  Both of my opponents argued that the path I took was through cover, therefor, they counted as behind is, so got I10.  I could find nothing to counter this.

Also, the first time this happened, unit A charged unit B who had already been in combat with unit C.  He claimed that unit B could strike at I10 against unit A.  I could find no rule to counter this, either.

Check the rulebook sir.

Passing through cover doesn't equal assaulting a unit in cover. If they wouldn't get a cover save, they aren't in cover.

And once a combat starts, cover is ignored for subesquent rounds. It's all in the book.

Oh I pine for a rulebook at this moment.

There is a picture in the rule book of a unit crossing some cover to a unit not actually in that cover for an assault, and it does say that since the assaulting model moves through the cover to assault the defenders would get the benefits of cover. It also says that you cannot go around the cover to avoid this penalty, you have to assault directly.

Basically if you have to jump over a small wall or get slowed by some trees it works out the same. I do not remember if the actual rules section addresses this.

To the original poster, which part of the rulebook did he use to prove his point? He is required to support his rule, you do not have to prove him wrong unless he has evidence to support himself already and is mistaken.

I just looked, and I don't see anything like that. The pick it's got is two units, both against a low wall. So in that case they both are in cover in relation to each other.

But if you're in woods and a unit is 3" away from the woods, they aren't in the cover.

But if you're in the woods, and a unit is 3" from the woods and a low wall is between the woods and them, they are in cover.

I wouldn't have put myself through the scrutiny that is this forum if I hadn't read the rulebook.

I don't have the page number, but I know the diagram.  It is a marine behind barrels, I think.

On one page the rules say that only models in cover get I10.  Then on the very next page, using the example from behind the barrels, I think, it says that they get I10, if the assaulting unit passes through cover.  Therefore, my opponents said they get I10 even though they were in the open and I was not.  I found nothing (after reading those pages multiple times between games) to counter their arguments.

I'll get the book in a couple of hours.  (While you wait with baited breathe, I am sure)

The rules you are talking about discuss units "in or behind cover", and in particular state that if a unit is "behind cover" the direction of the assault determines the initiative, assaulting over the cover being the only way that the defender strikes at I10.

The rules say nothing about simply passing through cover in order to assault.

So, the question comes down to "What is the definition of 'behind cover'". I think most people define it as "to be in base contact with cover".

I do believe we are all talking about the same picture. If it is worded behind cover and in cover for the charge target, then no, jumping out of woods for example would not cause the unit in the open to get I10.

Should you charge a unit in cover already in combat, I don't see why the defender wouldn't get I10 attacks against the charging unit (not the one it is already in combat with), unless the fluff is that they are able to prepare for the charge instead of the intervening terrain slowing the attackers down.

You wouldn't get I10 because of the rule that says cover is discounted after the first round.

 

pg 39: Fighting a Close Combat: Cover: Paragraph 2:
"Models that are charged while they are in or behind cover normally fight with in close combat with an initiative of 10"

They were getting me on "behind."

pg 39: Fighting a Close Combat: Cover: Paragraph 3:
"Note that cover advantage only applies to models in cover that are being charged. Some units count as being in cover all of the time because of psycic abilities or wierd force fields, but these are of no benefit if the unit itself charges."

There appears to be a bit of a contradiction here, as the word behind did not make it into this paragraph. But, this paragraph seems to be trying to clarify models, vs. units. By the way. What is the current rule for Space Wolves with the Storm spell charging? Was that last sentence in part directed at them?

pg 39: Fighting a Close Combat: Cover: Paragraph 4:
"Sometimes a model will only count as being in cover if assaulted from a specific direction, from which the cover has an effect. eg, a space marine behind some oil drums, but not if assaulted from the rear. If, before any assaulting models have moved, a direct line from the assaulting model to the enemy model passes through the cover then it is assumed to be enough of an obstruction to count."

It is the last sentence, in combination with the word behind from paragraph 2 that they got me on. I could not counter their arguments.

Posted By mauleed on 04/06/2006 1:18 PM

You wouldn't get I10 because of the rule that says cover is discounted after the first round.

They got me on this because they said it is still unit A's first round of combat.  Now, I completely disagree with them and agree with you, but I couldn;t counter that argument either.

Posted By mauleed on 04/06/2006 1:18 PM

You wouldn't get I10 because of the rule that says cover is discounted after the first round.

 

I'll make sure not to assault until round two

The guys outside the wood are not "in or behind cover" from the perspective of the guys in the woods. Refer to "When do models count as in cover", page 25. Thus they will not get to strike first. The easy way to do it is to check LOS from the assaulting models before they move- if the models they are assaulting have cover (per the shooting rules) from the position they start at, the rules for assaulting a unit in cover will apply.

Regarding the Space Wolves and Storm Caller, look up Space Wolves' FAQ v4.1

In it Storm Caller is explained in detail (and in ways that contradict the rules everyone else follows). To whit:

1. It states to "remember that plasma and frag grenades only work if the unit that has them charges. If a uni with Storm Caller on it charges an opponent with either grenade type, they will strike first as these grenades are of no use when receiving a charge."

2. If a unit with Storm Caller on it charges a unit in cover, all attacks are simultaneous.

3. "Remember that cover only matters in the first round of a close combat and subsequently ((This should be subsequent - grammar note)) attacks will occur in normal order. New enemies charging the unit with Storm Caller will be affected though. Weapons that strike last, will, of course, always strike last ((note:not like Doom Siren))"

-There you go. Space Wolves with Storm Caller can take their cover with them, get to strike at I10 if they charge, and new enemies that charge in are affected - all things that break the normal rules, but as the FAQ is from AFTER the new rule book, then it take precedence. Yay Wolves!

-Iron Father