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Hi

A couple of things came up today and I would really appreciate if anyone could shed some insight into the following situations. Either the status quo, opinion, rulebook ref or missed relevant FAQ entry.

1) Chariot is charged and is exploded at high initiative step, does the single model embarked then get placed as per transport vehicles (& is not locked in combat), thus combat ends with no enemy models locked in CC, if a model was set to strike at a lower initiative step?

2) A model failed a MSS test but before it strikes at its initiative step, all enemy models are killed. Does combat end at this stage or does the MSS model still get to attack (potentially itself, as there may be no other models based).

3) Dominion (Just checking really), as a Blessing it is cast at the beginning of the movement phase. IB Tests happen at the same time thus you get to decide which happens first, to ensure no IB tests are rolled? This is because the power lasts until (I read before) the start of my next turn, i.e. when IB tests are made.

4) Targeting a unit underneath terrain (you may or may not have LOS... doesn;'t matter?) with a Biovore. Basically, the spore mine shot will always hit the top-most level and with no models hit, will always (on a direct hit) place spore mines instead?

5) Spore mine damaged caused in CC (due to a charging spore mine cluster), does it count towards CC resolution (am I being blind here?).

Cheers!

Razerous wrote:

1) Chariot is charged and is exploded at high initiative step, does the single model embarked then get placed as per transport vehicles (& is not locked in combat), thus combat ends with no enemy models locked in CC, if a model was set to strike at a lower initiative step?

2) A model failed a MSS test but before it strikes at its initiative step, all enemy models are killed. Does combat end at this stage or does the MSS model still get to attack (potentially itself, as there may be no other models based).

3) Dominion (Just checking really), as a Blessing it is cast at the beginning of the movement phase. IB Tests happen at the same time thus you get to decide which happens first, to ensure no IB tests are rolled? This is because the power lasts until (I read before) the start of my next turn, i.e. when IB tests are made.

4) Targeting a unit underneath terrain (you may or may not have LOS... doesn;'t matter?) with a Biovore. Basically, the spore mine shot will always hit the top-most level and with no models hit, will always (on a direct hit) place spore mines instead?

5) Spore mine damaged caused in CC (due to a charging spore mine cluster), does it count towards CC resolution (am I being blind here?).

1) I believe that the rider still gets to attack. the rules should be under the who gets to attack section.
2) The model under MSS is still "engaged" and will attack
3) You should be able to choose what order you do " start of phase" things
4)This depends on the type of terrain. If you are shooting at mutli level terrain (like a ruins) barrage ill always it the highest level under the template . If you are hiding in a single level terrain ( house,cave,etc) with a roof you are going to get blasted.
5) It should add to the wounds causes in a combat but I dont know the wording on them
3

4) You cant target a unit with barrage if they are on the lower levels of a ruin; you have to be able to place the hole over the model you wish to hit, and you cannot hit a model if it is underneath the levels of the ruin. At least, thats how i would read it.

Razerous wrote:

1) Chariot is charged and is exploded at high initiative step, does the single model embarked then get placed as per transport vehicles (& is not locked in combat), thus combat ends with no enemy models locked in CC, if a model was set to strike at a lower initiative step?

The CC involves the chariot and the enemy unit(s) only, not the passenger. The chariot's rules do permit the passenger to exchange blows but that's all they do. The passenger is never actually in CC, so when the chariot explodes the passenger disembarks like any other passenger that had his vehicle destroyed in CC.

1: There's a FAQ that answers this. I forget if it's the main rule book or Necron one. Like copper.talos said, the combat is over.

2: if all opposing models are destroyed, the combat immediately ends (as per close combat rules in the BRB). If this happens before the MSS'ed models initiative, you're out of luck.

5: their rules straight up say they don't count for combat resolution. Read yer dang rules

I believe Fafnir is referring to:

Q: If a Chariot is Wrecked or suffers an Explodes! result in close combat, does the rider remain locked in combat with the unit they were fighting? (p82)
A: No, they perform an Emergency Disembarkation.

From the main Rulebook FAQ

Thank's everyone, sorry to be daft/missing the obvious.

Razerous wrote:
Hi

3) Dominion (Just checking really), as a Blessing it is cast at the beginning of the movement phase. IB Tests happen at the same time thus you get to decide which happens first, to ensure no IB tests are rolled? This is because the power lasts until (I read before) the start of my next turn, i.e. when IB tests are made.

Cheers!

IB test is not at the same time. IB test are at the begining of your turn, not at the begining of your Movement phase.
I think you can't cast Dominion to prevent a IB test.

I also got another question about the same subject:
Dominion Psyker Power and Instinctive Behaviour test : Dominion is a blessing, so it manifests at the start of the Psyker’s Movement phase and lasts until the end of the following turn (pg 69 of BRB). Instinctive Behaviour tests must be taken at the beginning of the Tyranid player (don’t have the page, cause it’s a ebook). So, is a unit more than 12”and less than 18” in synapse range of a synapse creature that casted Dominion in its previous turn? The Dominion expires before or after the Instinctive Behaviour test?
If it expires before (because it lasts until the end of the opponent turn), it is only useful to regroup units that are falling back in the opponent’s turn. You can’t count with it for keeping your synapse network.
If it expires after the Instinctive Behaviour test, the text should be ‘it lasts until the beginning of your next Movement Phase.

Psychic powers, like reserves, IB, outflank rolls, etc. all happen at the same time. Therefore, the owning player gets to choose the order. This means you can deep strike a trygon prime or shrikes where you need them, or cast dominion, before you roll IB tests.

Not quite.

There is no difference between "beginning of turn" and "Beginning of movement phase", they are exactly the same.

You *roll* for reserves at the beginning of the turn, the reserves *deploy* later.

So Blessings, IB checks, reserve rolls all happen at the same time, and thus the player can choose whatever order. But those IB checks will happen before anything actually gets to the board from reserves.

coredump wrote:
Not quite.

There is no difference between "beginning of turn" and "Beginning of movement phase", they are exactly the same.

You *roll* for reserves at the beginning of the turn, the reserves *deploy* later.

So Blessings, IB checks, reserve rolls all happen at the same time, and thus the player can choose whatever order. But those IB checks will happen before anything actually gets to the board from reserves.

Not true. Arriving from reserve is simultaneous with reserve rolls.

Blessings, powers, IB checks, rolling for reserves, deploying reserves all happens at the same time. You pick the order.

Per the faq, reserve rolls, psychic powers, and outflank rolls all happen at the same time. Outflank rolls are made when the unit moves on from reserves. Therefore, moving on from reserves occurs at the same time as other start of turn/movement phase abilities/SR/etc.

As above. Reserves move before you can move any units normally, thus placing their movement at the start of the Movement phase/turn.

Well, it is self that reserve rolls and moving onto the board are *not* simultaneous. You have to roll first.
In fact, the rules explicitly state you must make all the rolls first.

The FAQ explicitly states that reserve *rolls* happen at the 'beginning of the turn'. These *rolls* are simultaneous with blessings and IB checks. There is nothing in the rules stating that placing them on the board is also simultaneous. (And in fact, it is an impossibility, since the rolls *have to* happen first)

Moving onto the board does happen before the rest of the units moving, but after the reserve rolls, and thus after the (simultaneous) blessings and IB checks.



the FAQ states that reserve *rolls* and blessings happen at the same time.

The reserve rolls explicitly state that all the reserve rolls happen before


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:
Per the faq, reserve rolls, psychic powers, and outflank rolls all happen at the same time. Outflank rolls are made when the unit moves on from reserves. Therefore, moving on from reserves occurs at the same time as other start of turn/movement phase abilities/SR/etc.

You have created a rule that does not exist. There is no rule to make the Outflank rolls when moving onto the table...

The rule states that "When arriving from reserves..."

As seen on p. 124, "Arriving from Reserves" is a multiple stage process that spans the entire process from rolling dice, to determining arrival order, or moving onto the board. We now know, thanks to the FAQ, that these Outflank rolls also happen at the beginning of the turn, simultaneous with IB checks and Blessings.

CoreDump:
Do you believe that an entire shooting attack is not simultaneous?
It too requires us to Roll dice before we carry out additional actions further down the sequence.

All of the shots are fired simultaneoulsy. that does not mean the entire process happens at the same time. Things can happen between shooting, and wounding, and saves, and removal.

Take Blind for instance. It happens between shooting and wounding. It does not have to wait until after casualty removal.


Edit: Your very question answers itself. If there is a 'sequence', then it *can't* be simultaneous.

Yes, by the rules it can be simultaneous.

coredump wrote:
All of the shots are fired simultaneoulsy. that does not mean the entire process happens at the same time. Things can happen between shooting, and wounding, and saves, and removal.

Take Blind for instance. It happens between shooting and wounding. It does not have to wait until after casualty removal.


Edit: Your very question answers itself. If there is a 'sequence', then it *can't* be simultaneous.

I'll spend more time to prove it tomorrow, but one entire shooting attack is simultaneous.
There is a sequence so one thing must happen before another but as far as the rules are concerned they happen simultaneously.

coredump wrote:
All of the shots are fired simultaneoulsy. that does not mean the entire process happens at the same time. Things can happen between shooting, and wounding, and saves, and removal.

Take Blind for instance. It happens between shooting and wounding. It does not have to wait until after casualty removal.


Edit: Your very question answers itself. If there is a 'sequence', then it *can't* be simultaneous.

Core - Outflank rolls, the rolls made to determine which side your models turn up on, ARE made at the same time as you move the models on. You roll, then move model son, roll, then move models on.

Thus if outflank *rolls* are simultaneous with the start of turn, which is start of movement phase, then moving on from outflank has to *also* be simultaneous. If it were not, then as soon as you roll for your first models to arrive, you move past start of turn and thus cannot bring on any more models from outflank, breaking the outflank rule.

The only way to break no rule is to follow the FAQ - as all Outflank rolls are simultaneous, moving on from outflank must also be simultaneous, and thus so must moving on from reserves in genera;

WHat you have described is a sequence in reality, despite the rules treating them as simultaneous. A unit firing a plasma gun and 4 bolters, using only one set of dice, has to roll in sequence, however all shots to-hit are still simultaneous.

removed....