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Yes I know the game is what you make etc....

But I'm planning on starting a fully converted army (I play chaos mainly) so I've been toying with what loyalist chapter to go with I have several ideas but my favorite currently is to make a renegade marine force lead by a Thunderwarrior. Black Library has a guy named Arik Tanaris who was a Thunderwarrior and was rumored to have been attempting to figure out the Big Es gene science to keep himself alive longer and/or clone an army, this was all in the Horus Heresy.... So my idea is that a very small contingent of Thunderwarriors got swept up by the warp after fleeing Terra following the Unification Wars, they reemerge in the present timeline and quickly realize the state of the Imperium somehow they track Tanaris research down (let's say a demon lead them there) and use it to begin their own Astartes. Basically the raid ships and feudal planets force anyone who has potential to
become an Astartes, they would hate chaos for destroying Imperium as they know it but would occasionally run afoul imperial forces as well. I'm thinking of modeling the basic marines in a hodgepodge of armor marks some with bare arms or missing plates to show how they are scavengers and pirates. The chapter master and veterans would all be modeled after Thunderwarriors. So basically I have two questions..

Fluff wise does this sound remotely plausible or is it female chaos grey knights material?

And codex wise should I use Space Wolves or Space Marines?

Female Chaos Grey Knight material. Thunderwarriors really have no business being on a space vessel to begin with, they were used exclusively on Terra, and never sent to space. Yes, some escaped the culling, but not many. But lets say they did, and they somehow, conveniently, return in the 41st millenium. Arik Tanaris was on Terra, in fact he did his work literally right outside the Imperial palace... assuming that whatever it was that he did SOMEHOW survived destruction during the Siege of Terra, how do you propose a small lot of Thunder Warriors infiltrate the most closely guarded and heavily defended planet (let alone solar system) in the Imperium and THEN somehow manage to come within spitting distance of the palace walls without anyone noticing them?

Codex wise, you should use neither, since its a terrible concept, but if you were going to use it, it would depend. Are they creating Astartes (in which case you would use Space Marines) or are they creating Thunderwarriors (in which case I think Space Wolves might be more appropriate)?

And even if they are creating Thunderwarriors, there's a whole lotta wargear in the current Imperium that they did not have during the Unification Wars.

Like Power Armor.
Terminator Armor.
Tactical Dreadnought Armor.
Valkyries.
Stormravens.
Land Raiders.

... so your TW would be strictly TacMarines, maybe with a few Assault Marines and Devastators thrown in, those who've acquired some chainswords or some heavy weapons...
.... but lacking access, or knowledge of, the Codex Astartes (and possibly being unable to read it, since they don't speak High Gothic), they would be very, very poor shadows of actual Space Marines.

I'd say that there might have been a few surviving thunderwarriors who joint the army of Horus during the Siege of Terra, though unlikely to have made it into any of the legions since they would have been seen as inferiors by the Astartes, and some of which, could have made it into the EoT.

Providing that such things are possible, it depends on whether any of them could have survived the terrors on the Daemon Worlds, and some of them could make it into a warband as a MEQ (note that mortals can be used in a chaos warband, just not on the same status as a CSM). As for how likely it is he leads said warband consisting of CSM units... even more unlikely...

As for if they'd somehow still remain loyal to the Emperor... why?

Sure why not according the book, he gets a body of one of space marines, why not make it that he succeeds to stabilizing his genetic problem, and that he gets off the planet during the confusion of the attack on Terra, free of earth he can implement making new thunder warriors, they could be mercenaries with no real chaos allegiance. But would not be pro-imperium as well the Emperor abandoned them.

Honestly, you wouldn't have to have that concrete of fluff for your army, I have chaos tau, the most I have gotten is "Hey, is that a crisis suit kit-bashed with a spawn? Yes. Nice." Most people would probably just say "Nice thunder warrior" and start the game. But if it is more about the fluff for you I would say it is not quite there yet, but keep going you will think of something! and I would use the normal marine codex, and use whatever chapter tactics you deem necessary.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Honestly, you wouldn't have to have that concrete of fluff for your army, I have chaos tau, the most I have gotten is "Hey, is that a crisis suit kit-bashed with a spawn? Yes. Nice." Most people would probably just say "Nice thunder warrior" and start the game. But if it is more about the fluff for you I would say it is not quite there yet, but keep going you will think of something! and I would use the normal marine codex, and use whatever chapter tactics you deem necessary.

That's what I figured but I thought it'd be interesting to see the prevailing thought on dakka about it, also anyone see/have any converted Thunderwarriors?

 Psienesis wrote:
And even if they are creating Thunderwarriors, there's a whole lotta wargear in the current Imperium that they did not have during the Unification Wars.

Like Power Armor.
Terminator Armor.
Tactical Dreadnought Armor.
Valkyries.
Stormravens.
Land Raiders.

... so your TW would be strictly TacMarines, maybe with a few Assault Marines and Devastators thrown in, those who've acquired some chainswords or some heavy weapons...
.... but lacking access, or knowledge of, the Codex Astartes (and possibly being unable to read it, since they don't speak High Gothic), they would be very, very poor shadows of actual Space Marines.

Power armour existed, it was just an early and primitive mark.

Terminator and Tactical Dreadnought armour is the same thing. It did indeed not exist back then.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
Honestly, you wouldn't have to have that concrete of fluff for your army, I have chaos tau, the most I have gotten is "Hey, is that a crisis suit kit-bashed with a spawn? Yes. Nice." Most people would probably just say "Nice thunder warrior" and start the game. But if it is more about the fluff for you I would say it is not quite there yet, but keep going you will think of something! and I would use the normal marine codex, and use whatever chapter tactics you deem necessary.

Chaos Tau is completely possible. It just takes a Warpsmith or a Sorcerer and some unlucky (or stupid) Tau.

Indeed. Same thing goes for SoB and (Theoretically- in practice it would be difficult!) Grey Knights.

If you can't tempt them, why bother corrupting them with their consent?

 Psienesis wrote:
And even if they are creating Thunderwarriors, there's a whole lotta wargear in the current Imperium that they did not have during the Unification Wars.

Like Power Armor.
Terminator Armor.
Tactical Dreadnought Armor.
Valkyries.
Stormravens.
Land Raiders.

... so your TW would be strictly TacMarines, maybe with a few Assault Marines and Devastators thrown in, those who've acquired some chainswords or some heavy weapons...
.... but lacking access, or knowledge of, the Codex Astartes (and possibly being unable to read it, since they don't speak High Gothic), they would be very, very poor shadows of actual Space Marines.

Most of that could be salvaged from derelict imperial ships, finding some techmarines that has a grudge against the imperium isnt that far out of reach and that would take care of most of the maintenence issues, their PA could be painted irregulary in diffrent chapters colors to show of they are juryrigged togheter from whatever they could salvage togheter.

Could see them using either iron hand or raven guard tactics one emphasizes guerilla shock other endurance and survivability.

Most of that could be salvaged from derelict imperial ships, finding some techmarines that has a grudge against the imperium isnt that far out of reach and that would take care of most of the maintenence issues, their PA could be painted irregulary in diffrent chapters colors to show of they are juryrigged togheter from whatever they could salvage togheter.

How would they communicate? Thunder Warriors aren't speaking Gothic, and TechMarines don't speak Terran.

Power armour existed, it was just an early and primitive mark.

Very primitive... in fact, in some cases not even actually "powered". Would be akin, I think, to knowing only about the original Model T and then being asked to work on 21st century sports car.

I'd also point out that Thunder Warriors won't even fit in Space Marine power armor- they're too big.

I don't think the thunderwarrior thing is a terrible idea. In that same HH book with Arik Tanaris, isn't there another thunderwarrior? I forget his name but I remember him single handedly (after his mortal crew was demolished) taking on a small group of space marines. Sure he eventually had to retreat but only after taking out the biggest baddest space marine (an especially large Death Guard if I recall). If you think its cool, stick with it!

sure it could work!

your lone thunder warrior, or him and a couple buddies decide to escape the culling!

they take a ship laden with logistical supplies for another chapter and dissapear into the warp, only to be tossed into the 40k timeframe.

when they pop out, they go scavving/pirating for better gear (explaining anything they have thats not pre heresy and all the mis match/incomplete armour)

sounds like a fun idea, roll with it!

heck, my guard force is "the only planet ever to resist the imperiums dogma/invasions and still follows the scientific ideals of the enlightenment, and that coupled with the ENTIRE planet being devoted to war they somehow fight off incursions from the IOM enough to reach a tithe deal with the IOM since their warriors are so good at what they do, and they can maintain and repair all the STC stuff" which is somewhat antithetical to the 40k thing... but hey, a billion worlds, one of em could be like that right?

I would stick with a single thunderwarrior.

Maybe he is endlessly searching for others like him or is one a mad quest for revenge against the empire of man for the death of his comrades.

Seriously do whatever you want, it's a game.

 easysauce wrote:
sure it could work!

your lone thunder warrior, or him and a couple buddies decide to escape the culling!

they take a ship laden with logistical supplies for another chapter and dissapear into the warp, only to be tossed into the 40k timeframe.

when they pop out, they go scavving/pirating for better gear (explaining anything they have thats not pre heresy and all the mis match/incomplete armour)

sounds like a fun idea, roll with it!

heck, my guard force is "the only planet ever to resist the imperiums dogma/invasions and still follows the scientific ideals of the enlightenment, and that coupled with the ENTIRE planet being devoted to war they somehow fight off incursions from the IOM enough to reach a tithe deal with the IOM since their warriors are so good at what they do, and they can maintain and repair all the STC stuff" which is somewhat antithetical to the 40k thing... but hey, a billion worlds, one of em could be like that right?

This is true. More simply just them have them as thunder warriors who fell out after a warp storm delay and were cycled into a new chapter. Most are gone but a few TWs are left in the chapter.

In essence do you want Thurnder warriors, Thunder warrior pirates or something else? Go with that.

 Frazzled wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
sure it could work!

your lone thunder warrior, or him and a couple buddies decide to escape the culling!

they take a ship laden with logistical supplies for another chapter and dissapear into the warp, only to be tossed into the 40k timeframe.

when they pop out, they go scavving/pirating for better gear (explaining anything they have thats not pre heresy and all the mis match/incomplete armour)

sounds like a fun idea, roll with it!

heck, my guard force is "the only planet ever to resist the imperiums dogma/invasions and still follows the scientific ideals of the enlightenment, and that coupled with the ENTIRE planet being devoted to war they somehow fight off incursions from the IOM enough to reach a tithe deal with the IOM since their warriors are so good at what they do, and they can maintain and repair all the STC stuff" which is somewhat antithetical to the 40k thing... but hey, a billion worlds, one of em could be like that right?

This is true. More simply just them have them as thunder warriors who fell out after a warp storm delay and were cycled into a new chapter. Most are gone but a few TWs are left in the chapter.

In essence do you want Thurnder warriors, Thunder warrior pirates or something else? Go with that.

This. Use this. Space Pirates for the win.

Severin Loth's armour of Skellet always looked like Thunder Armor to me.





Edit--- I mean that for modelling information, not that I think Severin Loth is a thunder warrior.

Actually I would looked some of the IA books and go with Heresy/Preheresy armour, since we have "canon" for TW's being around then.

It would be accpetable. Almost all Thunder Warriors died in or shortly after the Unification Wars, but there were a few survivors.
There is fluff about a group of Thunder Warrior renegades called the Dait'Tar in the first Horus Heresy book.
GW also still sells a Mk 1 power Armour miniature as a part of the 'Space Marine Armour through the ages' set.
However, one thing that should be noted is that the Thunder Warriors were deliberately designed to have a very short lifespan, so you would need to invent fluff to circumvent that.
It is a good idea, but it requires some careful fluff writing in order not to become female chaos grey knights material.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
It would be accpetable. Almost all Thunder Warriors died in or shortly after the Unification Wars, but there were a few survivors.
There is fluff about a group of Thunder Warrior renegades called the Dait'Tar in the first Horus Heresy book.
GW also still sells a Mk 1 power Armour miniature as a part of the 'Space Marine Armour through the ages' set.
However, one thing that should be noted is that the Thunder Warriors were deliberately designed to have a very short lifespan, so you would need to invent fluff to circumvent that.
It is a good idea, but it requires some careful fluff writing in order not to become female chaos grey knights material.

Inevitably the entire reasoning behind OP's thunder warrior warband has to come from, or inspired by the outcast dead, since Babu Dhakal did acquired a progenoid gland, which can supposely "cured" him of his imperfection. As for if others would considered that canon is some else entirely.

 lcmiracle wrote:
I'd say that there might have been a few surviving thunderwarriors who joint the army of Horus during the Siege of Terra, though unlikely to have made it into any of the legions since they would have been seen as inferiors by the Astartes, and some of which, could have made it into the EoT.

Providing that such things are possible, it depends on whether any of them could have survived the terrors on the Daemon Worlds, and some of them could make it into a warband as a MEQ (note that mortals can be used in a chaos warband, just not on the same status as a CSM). As for how likely it is he leads said warband consisting of CSM units... even more unlikely...

As for if they'd somehow still remain loyal to the Emperor... why?

Agree. Always thought a bunch of them will appear in the final books of the heresy. It would give a good excuse to produce the models which will allow GW to move onto the unification wars.

Always full of hope...