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Hi floks,

After some heavy competitive playtesting, this is where i'm going.

Flyrant 2x TL Dev (prob HC)
Tervigon (prob Regen)
30 gaunts (prob 15 Dev)
20 gargoyles
Crone
Mawloc

This leads us to 960 points (1070 incl. options). I came up with approximately 20 lists based on this core but none of them fits me 100%.
So here is the question: What unit(s) could be a good addition in a competitive way to this core up to 1850 points ?
If you guys want to ditch one of the core unit, feel free, but please be sure to explain why you ditched this particular unit !

I hope you guys enjoy this kind of post !

Cheers and thanks for your contribution

Biovores are really good now and they are cheap. I would pick up a few broods of 2.

You do need some more synapse so I would go with small unit of 3 warriors with DS. Plus their scoring and you need that.

You need some other scoring troops so maybe a small unit or two of genestealers to sit on objectives that are out of the way.

I would still avoid the regeneration for competitive lists, it has a very decent chance of not doing anything and paying 30pts for this is too expensive.

probaly would go with 30 gargoyles instead of 20, they are now a cheap quick units made to bog down the opponent due to the upgrades increase in points and new blinding acid rules.

Tervigon and Termagaunts could both be flanking, if you do flank them then I would recommend one of the thorax biomorph for the tervigon and the cluster spines to shoot as you come out.
if you arent planning on flanking then I would recomment the miasma cannon and cluster spines to have some range.

Im still not sure where you are going with this list.
are trying to go for a list that quickly gets to your opponent?
or slowly moves forward shooting with a few distraction units?
since you are taking gargoyles then I suppose you aren't going for a list that can shrug off the anti-infantry weapons of the opponent (my personal favorite).

I would highly recommend one or two venomthropes.

some Exocrines could be great but I could even see some Tyranofex or Dakkafexes working here.

Biovores would be nice.

Maybe some Zoanthropes to keep some synapse to the middle when the Flyrants move forward and to shoot a little more.

And adittional Flyrant is a must. Mawlocs are amazing, Dakkafexes are good, biovores as everybody already said.
Crones are useful for anti air and to escort the Flyrants.

Also a Venomthrope in a Bastion, which is almost a must.

 fartherthanfar wrote:

Im still not sure where you are going with this list.
are trying to go for a list that quickly gets to your opponent?
or slowly moves forward shooting with a few distraction units?
since you are taking gargoyles then I suppose you aren't going for a list that can shrug off the anti-infantry weapons of the opponent (my personal favorite).

The question is not "what am i doing with this list" but more something like "with that kind of base, where can we go ?". I'm aware there are some good units as you said but thing is i already tested them and i don't know what to do with all my models at 1850 !

That's why i asked for advices. I can play rush with raveners and goyles, deep strike+ outflank with trygons/prime and HC flyrants, but i'm not sure yet what to do.
I think it's more like which units synergizes the best with this roughly 1k base points. (aka lets work together to get the best competitive tyranid list atm =D -not sure it is the best way to do so though...-)

The issue is that base is a bit all over the place. The Tervigon + Termagant combo is a bit meh but can work in a slow grind up the field Nidzilla list (though for me warriors with BS is the best troops choice for that). Flyrant and Crone are good for early game pressure list or FMC spam with gargoyles helping that. Mawlocs are good in a disruption list with FMCs, Lictors and broodlords. So you've got bits from at least 3 different types of list in your core.

What type of list do you want and we might be able to help more. Otherwise it will turn into random people telling you to include their favourite in the army and you'll end up with a mess.

Well ok.

What i'd like to do with this list could be this. An aggressive deepstriking+outflanking list. I like to get board control asap (after DS ofc). I also like to disable units with powers like the horror Sitw and other spells we got in this new book, not sure this is really compatible though...
On the other hand i'm not sure this kind of list will be strong enough to counter "everything".(understand most played units) and that's why i tried to get a bit of speed/rush some disruption/screens, and some nids in that list. Guess i was wrong ! =)

So with the type of list you're looking for you'll want 3-5 FMCs. 2-3 Mawlocs. 4+ units of stealers and some Lictors. Plus the Staple of any competitive Nids a Venomthrope and fortification. Something like this:

Flyrant Dakka 230
Flyrant Dakka 230

4 x Genestealers: Broodlord 130 = 520

2 Lictors 100
2 Venomthropes 90
Lictor 50

Harpy: HVC 140
Crone 155

Mawloc 140
Mawloc 140

ADL 50

1845 total

4 pinning checks turn 1 all at -2 LD. 4 FMCs that should be getting either 3+ or 2+ cover. Stealers with 2+ cover Lictors with 3+. Then lictor guided Mawlocs hit pinned units turn 2 as all the FMCs and stealers and Lictors all hit home. Aggressive early game pressure list.

 FlingitNow wrote:
So with the type of list you're looking for you'll want 3-5 FMCs. 2-3 Mawlocs. 4+ units of stealers and some Lictors. Plus the Staple of any competitive Nids a Venomthrope and fortification. Something like this:

Flyrant Dakka 230
Flyrant Dakka 230

4 x Genestealers: Broodlord 130 = 520

2 Lictors 100
2 Venomthropes 90
Lictor 50

Harpy: HVC 140
Crone 155

Mawloc 140
Mawloc 140

ADL 50

1845 total

4 pinning checks turn 1 all at -2 LD. 4 FMCs that should be getting either 3+ or 2+ cover. Stealers with 2+ cover Lictors with 3+. Then lictor guided Mawlocs hit pinned units turn 2 as all the FMCs and stealers and Lictors all hit home. Aggressive early game pressure list.

Why would you be sending Mawlocs at pinned units? IMO, once a unit is pinned, don't worry about dealing with them again until they are about to act normally again, so if you're pinning units T1, deal with them T2 with the genestealers themselves. The Mawlocs are probably better suited to go after things like broadsides, Riptides, Wraithknights, and pathfinders.

The best pinned units can do is force grounding tests on your FMCs and they're already doing that on 6's anyways....

You pin stuff like Broadsides turn 1. You then march your Lictors up to them. They can't move away so your Mawloc hits them turn 2 without scattering. They're dead .

You don't want Mawlocs going after Riptides and Wraithknights. They want to go after stuff like broadsides, centurions, jetbikes, marines, Wraithguard etc.

Pinned units can only snap fire but they also can't move allowing you to take advantage of LoS blocking terrain. Stuff like Broadsides will move and shoot in the early game as they'll be gunning for the FMCs so you want them pinned to cut down their fire arcs and prevent them from doing too much damage to ground troops.

This list is quite good as i already played a pretty similar list (without venomthrope though cause i didnt want to pack my armies and it is hard to rely on a 3++ 2++ save on each model.
Also i had issues with first blooded 2 man lictor squad even in cover. Gargoyles did quite well at tarpitting on another game i played thats why i moved them in there.
Any reason on HVC on harpy instead of stranglethorn (for pinning purpose) ?

Is it a bad idea to combine deep strike and outflank ? i guess synapse will be an issue there, not sure though...

This time again i have the feeling i am missing something on this kind of list...

You're Tyranids against any competent list you're going to give up first blood.

Your army actually doesn't need to be packed for the saves. Stealers and Lictors go behind ADL for cover save and can GtG if need be. So its just the 4 FMC that actually need to be near the Venomthropes so not exactly packed. Mawlocs start in reserve.

HVC is for AT, you'll have enough pinning and AI. The issue with combining DS and Outflank is more board presence than synapse. Tyranids take it in the face early game meaning you need target saturation. You want minimal reserves or your opponent can take you apart piecemeal.

Given the models you started out as a base I would try this

230 1x Hive Tyrant / wings / 2x TL Devourer BLW
250 1x Hive Tyrant / wings / 2x TL Devourer BLW / Hive Commander

45 1x Venomthrope
45 1x Venomthrope
45 1x Venomthrope

225 1x Tervigon / Cluster Spine / Miasma Cannon
208 30x Termagaunts/ 22x Devourer (Flanking)

180 30x Garguoyles
155 1x Harpy / Cluster Spine / Heavy Venom Cannon
155 1x Harpy / Cluster Spine / Heavy Venom Cannon

170 1x Exocrine
140 1x Mawloc

Total 1848pts

Harpies have Heavy Venom Cannon since I find this list already has enough anti infantry but not enough long range anti vehicules. I normaly don’t really like small blast templates but it being TL means that it should hit on target more often then not. Hopefully hitting more then one vehicules per hit with a nice Str of 9 (I'm so happy Venom Cannons don't have -1 to vehicule penetration roll anymore).

Tervigon is starting on the board to spawn as much as possible and offer more synapse, so I’m giving him the 36” Miasma cannon to allow him 2 blast weapon per turn with the Cluster Spines,

Mawlocs to disrupt the enemy line.

I would take out 5 devourers on Termagaunts and add a Exocrine to bring it to 2000pts

This sounds interesting. I mean i like those FA slots...
As i said earlier i'm not sure how much those venoms are mandatory. Against any new player this could work but i'm pretty sure like i said earlier i will give FB to my opponents with those kind of solosquads.

Exocrine is OK for me i already had some good results with him but i didn't pick him in the core cause i don't really see how he synergizes with the rest of the list.

As far as i can tell Flyrants/Gargoyles/Harpies are supposed to be aggressive, Mawloc and tervigon to disrupt turn 2+ and i have pretty much strategic issues (?) with everything else =( (venom/exo)I guess those gaunts would run towards any kind of midfield objective and try to hold it.

Well like the previous list by FlingitNow, i'll try this list for sure =)

So can someone explain to me how 2 s6 ap2 hits kill a riptide?

 sykl wrote:
So can someone explain to me how 2 s6 ap2 hits kill a riptide?

No they can't...

I'm listening to your constructive thoughts guys =D

I'm liking list that smash the opponents deployment hard and fast I've made a 1500 list where I can get 6 mc in my opponents deployment turn 2 if I'm lucky. I think this sort of list will work well.

Riptides are to be dealt with by sending a flyrant in close combat against it, or pinning it with The Horror (Broodlords can be good against Tau). or if the Mawloc didnt get targeted and killed he can also charge it on 3rd turn, maybe even just bog it down with garguoyles or an exocrine would actually do very good shooting at it too.

BTW the Exocrine supports this list since its shooting hard at the opponent which means that he has to deal with it right away or feel its wrath.
And if hes shooting at it then hes not shooting at the rest of your army.

Its all about target saturation, and exocrines do this well, if your opponent is more than 30" away from the exocrine (kindof unlikely) then he runs forward and second turn will shoot.


Also when it comes to fear of giving first blood throught the Venomthropes, I would say dont worry about it, if he start then hes gonna get first blood if you starts then your gonna get first blood, next to nothing you can do would change this. unless you didnt bring enough shooting and then wouldnt even get first blood if you start, but this list should be good for that, the harpys will be able to blow up a vehicule or at least get it close to dead and a flyrant/exocrine will finish the job.
If you can keep them behind your MC and LOS blocking terrain, with a bit of luck you could keep them from getting shot at all in the first turn or two.

the venomthropes are seperate to avoid one unit shooting at them being able to kill them all and also to spread the shrouding, if your good at positionnning and dont need other elite slots then this is the tactically strongest way to shroud your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Termagaunts are flanking because this allows them to avoid getting shot at on first turn and then come out and shoot 72 Str4 shots to decimate a unit of troops and gain map control.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sykl wrote:
So can someone explain to me how 2 s6 ap2 hits kill a riptide?

Im wondering why you would ask this question?

no one said the mawloc could do that in this thread.


ugly trolling right?

Mmh also just wondering if the Tervigon with 30 gaunts is enough scoring units... in this particular list. And if tervigon is flanking with both flyrants at front lines, i think the exocrine and mb gaunts would lack the synapse, or am i missing something ? (obviously all this is about placement but still...)

It should be enough, the tervigon is quite tough and will start to spawn more troops from the first turn on (not flanking).
He is also not the most offensive model so if the opponent focuses him in the begining then your other more offensive units will be free to destroy him, and considering how tough he can be then its a big gamble for the opponent to take.

also the Termagaunt team does not start on the board so is avoiding getting shot at, then they do come out and really blast away, and even if the opponents good shooters arent shot down or tied down by the FMC/Gargoyles, then they are a team a 30.
30 models is huge!!!
They should be able to survive and score.
if they cant then you probably lost the game either way