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I run both eldar and grey knights. I was wondering of anybody used either effectively?

Havent played either but it seems like a good tactic would be to have something to modify reserve rolls and just deepstrike terminators onto objectives after you clear it with an apocalyptic blast

Aquilis was originally an Apoc level fortification before stronghold assault so that would tell you something about how powerful (and expensive) it is.

Wall of Martyrs has a number of different options and more so thanks to Stronghold assault. Is there any particular one you were interested in?


At the moment, I don't see either providing anything truly worthwhile for Eldar since Eldar have Aton of options already.

GreyKnights could benefit from a few differ Wall of Martyr prices but it depends greatly on how you normally play them.

With eldar I was thinking about putting rangers or guardians. I am sick of having them cut to pices from anything. With grey Knights it almost made inquisition monkeys with bolter acolytes worth it. Just to hold the back while the land raiders attack. My bastion has always provided great cover for my rangers. It is expensive though. I just have not seen any good tactics from stronghold. I was hoping there was something there.

In my opinion, the imperial bunker completely replaces the Bastion if Stronghold is allowed. Cheaper and allows more models to use the fire points. The Firestorm Redoubt also provides a large number of models to use the fire point and allows for some interesting Anti-Air options once you put the 3rd gun on top (which can be fired from inside unlike the stock two guns). Beyond that, I can't think of many other benefits for either army.

Look at a number of Eldar tactic threads on the forums. There might be an alternative tactic for your rangers and guardians on foot.

So the extra Quad Gun (for example) put on the Firestorm Redoubt does not require a model to be in base contact to fire it? Then my Havocs could sit inside the bunker and fire the Flakk Missiles whilst the Champion fires the Quad Gun?

Emplaced Weapons usually need that, but if the Redoubt doesn't that's super awesome!

That would answer my other quandry, if I know I'll be facing down 3 Vendettas, should I take the Firestorm Redoubt or 2 Bastions w Icarus Cannons/or Quad Guns? I have 250 points to spend on reinforcements for a campaign game next week and am weak on anti-air. Though I guess w 2 Bastions I could put Havocs in 1 and Oblits in the other.

 Unholyllama wrote:
Aquilis was originally an Apoc level fortification before stronghold assault so that would tell you something about how powerful (and expensive) it is.

You mean how pathetically weak it is. It's a 500+ point fortification that dies to one hit from a D-weapon, and if you have massive fortifications in the game then you also have D-weapons. I can't think of a single situation where I'd ever want to waste points on one.

Umm you can put void shields all over that cannon, and any other d weapon platforms will be just as vulnerable to the macrocannon.

kingleir wrote:
Umm you can put void shields all over that cannon, and any other d weapon platforms will be just as vulnerable to the macrocannon.

A void shield is a single AV 12 HP to kill, which can be done by a random lascannon or whatever. And no, other D-weapon platforms aren't even close to as vulnerable. A Shadowsword, the weakest D-weapon platform, has 9 HP. An aquila stronghold has 1 HP against D-weapons. That means that even the Shadowsword can take multiple D-weapon hits unless it suffers a lucky 6 on the D-weapon table, while the stronghold dies from one hit on a 2+.

My vote is for the wall of martyrs as its just fun to have on the board.

The firestorm redoubts weapons can only fire at bs2 and can never be manually fired, it can take an upgrade to fire at bs3 though.

If you take the bunker and put a quad gun or lascannon turret on top it becomes an emplaced weapon so the guys inside the bunker could fire it.

Ive been using the base stuff for the martyrs network which is the bunker, an emplacement and a section of lines and its done very well for me. my guardsmen enjoy the stubborn without a commissar or inquisitor.

Add some void shields and the bunkers and redoubt will live a bit more, not to mention theres the chance they come back every turn.

Now theres also those emplaced martyrs turrets that can be the punisher, battle cannon, and quad lascannon, my question is are units in base contact with it able to fire them? they are emplaced weapons so I dont see why they wouldnt be able to.

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
So the extra Quad Gun (for example) put on the Firestorm Redoubt does not require a model to be in base contact to fire it? Then my Havocs could sit inside the bunker and fire the Flakk Missiles whilst the Champion fires the Quad Gun?

Emplaced Weapons usually need that, but if the Redoubt doesn't that's super awesome!

That would answer my other quandry, if I know I'll be facing down 3 Vendettas, should I take the Firestorm Redoubt or 2 Bastions w Icarus Cannons/or Quad Guns? I have 250 points to spend on reinforcements for a campaign game next week and am weak on anti-air. Though I guess w 2 Bastions I could put Havocs in 1 and Oblits in the other.

Stronghold assault clarifies gun emplacements vs emplaced guns. A gun emplacement is a standalone piece of terrain that a model has to be close to to fire (I.e. A quad gun with an ADL). An emplaced weapon is part of a fortification and is fired by the unit inside (I.e. The heavy bolsters on a bastion). SA states that a gun placed on top of a fortification is an emplaced gun and not a gun emplacement. So taking a quad gun on a bastion, bunker, or redoubt is fired using the squad inside or on auto and not by a model next to it. In addition it means it can only be destroyed through the building damage table.

For the Firestorm, only the upgrade of a quad gun or Icarus lascannon can be fired manually, the stock batteries have unique special rules that prevent them from being fired manually -automatic firing only for the main 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tankboy145 wrote:

Now theres also those emplaced martyrs turrets that can be the punisher, battle cannon, and quad lascannon, my question is are units in base contact with it able to fire them? they are emplaced weapons so I dont see why they wouldnt be able to.

The vengeance weapon batteries are impassable buildings and can only fire on full auto. The can be interesting from a tactical perspective and since they cannot be reclaimed, your opponent has to deal a penetrating hit to the buildings to destroy the weapon. I have been testing out a pair and they don't make their points back often but tactically they have worked very well.

Okay thanks! I havent had my book on me as im busy with class and work but I will get around to finding it lol.

Going back to the OP - I would not use the Aquilis Strongpoint. It's an awesome looking model but it's also very easy to destroy if you aren't careful or are playing a game where people will be bringing a lot of melta (which isn't uncommon in an Escalation game). The Aquilis is particularly susceptible to drop pod marine lists since they'll drop the marines close by and then either melta it or have a dreadnaught smash it down.

Interesting use of models (and maybe a sly sales tactic) the Firestorm Redoubt's weapons only have the targeting problems if they are Skyfire weapons. The Vengeance Weapons batteries can have the Quad Icarus Lascannons for free. I switch the Lacannons from the Redoubt with the Punisher Gatling Cannons from the batteries and give the Redoubt the Machine Spirit upgrade. That way I get to chose my targets, the twin-linked lascannons are still BS 2, but the Punishers are BS 3...well worth the 30 points. Biggest problem is to get a full load out you have to buy 2 Redoubts and 2 Vengeance batteries.

 Unholyllama wrote:
Cheaper and allows more models to use the fire points..

Well, just wnated to throw this out there, it says in strong hold assault that the amount of fire points is per model, so if you get a little green stuff and put a line through the fire point dividing it into 2 different fire points you double the amount of shots. Or cut out another fire point elsewhere on the model.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Unholyllama wrote:
Cheaper and allows more models to use the fire points..

Well, just wnated to throw this out there, it says in strong hold assault that the amount of fire points is per model, so if you get a little green stuff and put a line through the fire point dividing it into 2 different fire points you double the amount of shots. Or cut out another fire point elsewhere on the model.

If that aint MFA i dunno what is.

Id say get the WoM formation with a few bunker pieces. you can get access to multiple Quad/Icarus, + 2 interior upgrades like the ammo cash and a void shield. string it up and shove it in mid field for immobile land raider with i 8 models shooting out of each bunker that re rolls 1s and a quad icarus or com relay for each.