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First shot at iron hands, thoughts? Chapter master in drop pod with the honor guard


Chapter Master 255
Artificer Armor
Burning Blade
Shield Eternal

Honor Guard 190
3 + champion
Artificer armor
Relic Blades
Champ with Hammer
Drop Pod

Dreadnought 120
Plasma Cannon
Missle Launcher

Tac Squad 280 X3
9 + sgt
Missle Launcher
Melta Gun
sgt plasma pistol and power weapon
Razorback with Lascannon and TL Plasma Gun
combat squaded
(4 guys + melta in razorback) (sgt with missile launcher and rest in cover)

Stormtalon 140
TL assault cannon
TL Lascannon

Dev Squad 155
4 + sgt
2 Missile Launcher
2 Plasma Cannon
sgt- Combi flamer, Power weapon, signum

Vindicator 145
Demolisher cannon
Siege shield
Extra armour

Let me start this off by saying that not every list need be the same; BUT, there are some general principles that bear heeding.

For example; don't put an assault unit in a drop pod. If you really want that chapter master and honor guard; they really need a land raider. I'd advocate if using one, the chapter master should be on a bike and tanking for a grav bike command squad...BUT, I said not every list need be the same. I don't use any of this stuff. Just use it better.

Another generally good idea is: don't spend precious points on gear for sgts. The benefit of having a sgt isn't that they can take HtH upgrades. The benefit of a sgt is he can accept an unwanted challenge and save your HQs butt from something scarier than him. Your Sgt will be dead before he swings in these scenarios. In combats more beneficial to you; you won't need said upgrades to win the combat. See my point? The only upgrades to consider are vet, because LD9 if you're light on troops is good; and melta bombs if you've got points.

Unlike Long Fangs; Devastators can't split fire. This is why most people go all in on one heavy weapon type. This doesn't apply to just them. Having a unit do one thing exceptionally well and having a different unit do a different thing exceptionally well is a better way of achieving synergy than having a bunch of jack of all trade units.

Next, I'm not a fan of Vindicators. You don't have to subscribe to the 40k Bible of The Shrike though (now out in paperback ;P). BUT, people who are fond of them would argue they are better in pairs.

Those are the quick hits I have for you without changing the nature (and models) in your list for cheesier stuff.

I'm not the most experieced list builder but a couple of things seem to stand out to me:

Keeping your sergeants from Tacticals back in cover with the heavy makes the pistols and power weapons odd choices, both of which need to be close to the enemy to be effective.

Similarly the Dev's combi flamer and power weapon seem like points that would be better spent elsewhere

As the others above have said sgt upgrades are often wasted points. But, since you are combat squadding they may see a bit more action if they are jumping out the razorbacks onto objectives.

If you are going to use a chapter master I'd recommend either termie armour or a bike for relentless orbital bombardment, otherwise I'd just go for a captain on foot with artificer armour.

If you do as The Shrike suggests and go the route of the land raider, try and pick up a techmarine for repairs since they are pretty cheap and don't take an hq slot (and there'll be loads of room in there too)

The venerable upgrade is decent for the dread too if you can squeeze points for it.

This better? Again the Master with the Guard in the land raider, and the tac squads are combat squaded with the Melta and 4 marines in the Razorback and the Sergeant with the missile launcher outside in cover

Chapter Master (255)
The Shield Eternal, The Burning Blade, Artificer Armour

Honour Guard (280)
(7) Guard
Artificer Armour, Bolter, Relic Blades
(1) Champion
Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Weapon

Tactical Squad (260)
(9) Marines
Bolter, Missile Launcher, Melta gun
(1) Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Veteran
(1)Razorback
Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun, Extra Armour

Tactical Squad (260)
(9) Marines
Bolter, Missile Launcher, Melta gun
(1) Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Veteran
(1)Razorback
Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun, Extra Armour

Tactical Squad (260)
(9) Marines
Bolter, Missile Launcher, Melta gun
(1) Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Veteran
(1)Razorback
Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun, Extra Armour

Stormtalon Gunship (140)
TL Assault Cannon, TL Lascannon

Vindicator (145)
Demolisher Cannon, Siege Shield, Extra Armour

Land Raider (250)
TL Heavy Bolter, (2)TL Lascannon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
with the iron hands chapter tactics all vehicles gain IWND along with my Characters and they also gain FNP

I'd say maybe drop the vindicator for another storm talon.

And why not run the sergeant in the razorback?

I'm not sure how well this list would do, I think your CM with a bike would be better off with a command squad to travel with.

Is this list better?

Chapter Master, Terminators, Tech Marine ride in Landraider, Tac squads are combat squaded, sgt and melta in each razorback with 3 marines, Missile launcher and 4 marines behind aegis line

Chapter Master (255)
The Shield Eternal, The Burning Blade, Artificer Armour

Tech Marine (50)
Servo Arm

Assault Terminators (225)
(4) Terminators
Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
(1) Sergeant
Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

Tactical Squad (245)
(9) Marines
Bolter, Missile Launcher, Melta gun
(1) Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Veteran
(1)Razorback
Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad (245)
(9) Marines
Bolter, Missile Launcher, Melta gun
(1) Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Veteran
(1)Razorback
Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad (245)
(9) Marines
Bolter, Missile Launcher, Melta gun
(1) Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Veteran
(1)Razorback
Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun

Stormtalon Gunship (140)
TL Assault Cannon, TL Lascannon

Stormtalon Gunship (140)
TL Assault Cannon, TL Lascannon

Land Raider (250)
TL Heavy Bolter, (2)TL Lascannon

Aegis Defense Line (50)