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Can Swedish Komp save Competitive 40K
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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I am very curious about peoples opinions on this. Do you think it could work or not? Vote! And come here and let us know why

LBK-mallen for 40K 6th V.2.2

Usage
The LBK-mall can be used in a variety of ways, here are some examples;

Threshold.
The Tournament Organiser sets a limit for what is allowed in the tournament, for example only armies
with a maximum of 5 Komp penalties is allowed to participate.

Active Komp.
When fighting a tournament game, players compare their Komp penalty in each game. The player with
the larger penalty get to subtract the difference from his/hers points earned in the game and the player
with the lower penalty get to add the same number to his points earned in the game.

Komp Discount.
When building the army the player deduct a certain fixed number set by the TO from the Komp in the
list when calculating the army total Komp, i.e all armies have -2 in komp, and by that allowing each
player to include 2 komp-free choices before any penalties are applied that have effect on the points in
the tournament.

To vary the influence of the penalty system from tournament to tournament, one could i.e. vary the
maximum amount of points earned in each game (24, 20, 16 and so on) or simply put a multiplier on
the Komp penalty value.

Imperial Armour, Stronghold Assault & Escalation
Units from these books are not included in this document. If a tournament organiser want to allow
them, then it is up to them to specifying restrictions or guidelines.

Clarifications
You start with 0 (zero) in Komp, than you add any penalties that is mentioned below; add up all the
penalties to get your Komp score (and deduct if there is any Komp Discount) for your army including
Komp gained from an allied detachment.

Allies and Komp
When calculating the Komp from an allied detachment use their main list of Komp penalties for that
specific Codex, and in some cases there are some additions (presented under each Codex – Used as
Allies), and add all up together with the Komp from your Primary detachment to get your final Komp
score.

All supplements counts as their parent codex with regards to comp penalties and restrictions. In
addition if you choose to ally the same codex itself, a supplement to its parent codex, or vice versa,
then the comp penalties and restrictions are applied to the army as a whole, not each individual
detachment.

Content
This document includes all the Army Codices released and the following supplements:
- Clan Raukaan - A Codex: Space Marines Supplement
- Black Legion - A Codex: Chaos Space Marines Supplement
- Farsight Enclaves – A Codex: Tau Empire Supplement
- Iyanden – A Codex: Eldar Supplement
- Sentinels of Terra - A Codex: Space Marines Supplement
- Be´lakor – Dataslate
- Cypher – Dataslate

LBK Mallen 40K 6th V.2.2

ALL ARMIES - Fortifications
1 Aegis Defence line
1 Skyshield landing pad

ADEPTA SORORITAS
1 Each Exorcist after the second
1 3rd Unit of Dominions
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods and Pentinent Engines

ADEPTA SORORITAS - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Each Ministorum Priest (only if Battle Brother)

BLOOD ANGELS
1 Corbulo (only if 10 Terminators in a unit)
1 6th Vehicle with Front armour value 13 or better (not counting Dreadnoughts)
2 Each StormRaven after the first
1 Each Land Raider after the first in army
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods
1 5th drop pod, additional 1 for the 7th and the 9th. Count each drop pod able to carry 3 or more
special/combi-weapons as 2 drop pods (don't count close combat weapons or weapons carried by IC)

BLOOD ANGELS – USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 First Storm Raven
Every secondary detachment drop pod counts as two when summarizing for the drop pod penalty
regardless of content.

CHAOS DAEMONS
1 Be´lakor, if no other FMC in the list.
1 Every 4th mastery level on Flying Monstrous Creature
1 Each Flying Monstrous Creature after the 1st

1 Each unit of Screamers after the first
1 2nd Exalted Reward (First if army includes a Flying Monstrous Creature)
1 Each Herald of Tzeentch/Lord of Change if army includes Screamers & Exalted Reward
1 Each unit of Flesh Hounds after the first
1 Each Soul Grinder after the second
1 Each unit of Seekers after the first.
1 Each Herald of Tzeentch with exalted locus after the 2nd


CHAOS DAEMONS - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Each Flying Monstrous Creature (unless it already costs 1 komp)
1 Each Herald of Tzeentch with mastery level 3 or Lord of Change allied to an army which is
considered battle brother and do have not access to Divination


LBK Mallen 40K 6th V.2.2

CHAOS SPACE MARINES
1 Be´lakor
1 First Heldrake
2 Each Heldrake after the first
1 Daemon Prince with Wings and Black Mace
1 Each Flying Monstrous Creature after the first
1 Each unit of Chaos spawns after the first (including the first if access to more than 3 telepathy
psychic powers in army)
1 9th Vehicle in army
1 101th Plague zombie
1 4th Obliterator model and every 2nd thereafter (6th, 8th, 10th etc)
1 Each Land Raider after the first

- Black Legion
1 Last memory of the Yuranthos on a Flying Monstrous Creature

CHAOS SPACE MARINES - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Obliterators (if mark of Nurgle)
1 Flying Monstrous Creature (unless it already costs 1 komp)
1 First Land Raider

DARK ANGELS
1 Sacred Banner of Devastation
1 21st scoring model with unit type bike and additional 1 for every 10 thereafter (31st, 41st etc.)*
1 Every 6th model with Plasma talon/Ravenwing grenade launcher
1 9th separate unit of Bikes/Attack bike taken as troops (1 bike unit + 1 attack bike = 2 units)
1 Darkshroud (only if more than 10 models with unit type bike and Skilled rider in army)
1 Each Land Raider after the first in army
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods
1 5th drop pod, additional 1 for the 7th and the 9th. Count each pod able to carry 3 or more
special/combi-weapons as 2 drop pods (don't count close combat weapons or weapons carried by IC)
*Including all bikes in the army, only count once for both primary and allied detachment

DARK ANGELS - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 First unit including a Ravenwing grenade launcher
Every secondary detachment drop pod counts as two when summarizing for the drop pod penalty
regardless of content.

DARK ELDAR
1 9th Vehicle in army, additional 1 for the 13th

1 5th Venom
1 6th Nightshield
1 3rd Ravager

DARK ELDAR - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 3rd Venom
1 Beastpack unit containing more than 12 models
LBK Mallen 40K 6th V.2.2

ELDAR
1 Each Farseer (count Eldrad as a Farseer)
1 4th Vehicle with Front armour value 12
1 5th Vehicle and every 3rd thereafter with Front armour value 10
1 Each 3rd Warlock On jetbike
1 Each unit of Windrider jetbikes after the second
1 The 7th Warpspider, additional 1 for every 5th thereafter
1 Each Wave serpent after the first
1 Each Wraithknight (additional 1 on the second)
1 Second unit with Shadow Weavers
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods

- Iyanden
1 More than 15 Wraithguards taken as troops

ELDAR - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Warpspiders
1 Each unit of Windrider jetbikes
1 Allied Detachment to Tau

GREY KNIGHTS
1 Coteaz
1 Draigo (only if there is a unit of 10 Paladins in the army)
1 Each Dreadnought with Psybolt ammunition after the first (if armed with two twin-linked
autocannons)
1 Each unit that contains 7 or more death cult assassins/crusaders (only if an Assault Vehicle in the
army)
1 Each Dreadknight after the first (if Jump monstrous creature)
1 Each unit with 5 or more Paladins, additional 1 if 10 models (only if Grand strategy in army)
1 Each 7th Psycannon
1 8th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods
1 Each Land Raider after the first in army
1 First Storm Raven (2 if Psybolt ammunition and Hurricane Bolters)
2 Each Storm Raven after the first

GREY KNIGHTS - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 First Dreadnought with Psybolt ammunition (if armed with two twin-linked autocannons)
1 First Land Raider

IMPERIAL GUARD
1 Each Vendetta after the first (from the first if another Flyer in the army)
1 Each Valkyrie after the first
1 Each Manticore after the first
1 First Platoon with 4 or more Infantry Squads, if the unit can have access to Stubborn.
1 Battle brother Independent Character/s with ATSKNF or Fearless special rule (only if there is an
Infantry platoon with 4 or more infantry squads)
1 10th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods and Sentinels
1 4th weapon with rule Barrage (only count weapons mounted on vehicles) in army
LBK Mallen 40K 6th V.2.2

IMPERIAL GUARD - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Each Infantry platoon with 4 or more infantry squads
1 First Vendetta
1 First Valkyrie
1 First Manticore
1 Leman Russ squadron (only if it includes more than one model)

INQUISITION
1 Coteaz
1 Each Land Raider after the first in army
1 Each Valkyrie after the first
1 4th Chimera with Psybolt ammunition
1 Each unit that contains 10 or more Death Cult Assassins/Crusaders/Ministorum Priests (if an Assault
Vehicle in the army)
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods

INQUSITION - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Each Inquisitor with either; Psyker upgrade (only if Primary/Secondary Detachment Codex doesn’t
have access to Divination powers (note: Only Ultra marines in Space marines)) and/or
Rad/Psychotroke grenades. (Only if Battle brother with any detachment)
1 More than 1 servo skull

NECRONS
1 Imhotekh the Storm lord
1 Zandrekh + Obyron (if another HQ in army)
1 Second Destroyer Lord
1 Each Night Scythe
1 Each Doom Scythe after the first
1 Each Mind Shackle Scarabs after the first (including the first if any taken on a destroyer lord)
1 Each Annihilation barge after the first
1 Each unit of Wraiths after the first (including the first if Destroyer Lord in army)
1 Each unit of Canoptek Scarabs after the first
1 Each unit of Canoptek Spyders after the first
1 4th Vehicle with Quantum shielding
1 6th Vehicle with Quantum shielding
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods

NECRONS - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 First Doom Scythe
1 First Annihilation barge
1 First unit of Wraiths


LBK Mallen 40K 6th V.2.2

ORKS
1 91st Boyz model (including Boyz Nob)
1 120th Boyz model (including Boyz Nob)
1 20th Loota model
1 3rd Battlewagon and additional 1 for every 2 thereafter (5th , 7th etc.)
1 Every 8th model in mega armor (count Ghazghkul as 3 models) with* a transport in the army
1 Each Dakkajet after the second
1 9th Vehicle in army, do not count Killa-kans
1 First unit with 7 or more Nob Bikers (only if there is a Warboss on bike in the army)
1 Second unit with 7 or more Nob Bikers (only if there is two Warbosses on bike in the army)

ORKS - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Each unit of Boyz with more than 25 models
1 unit of Lootas

*With - An option is only penalized if it during deployment is possible to combine the elements in such way that
they meet the penalization requirements. For example: If a unit is penalized for being able to ride in a transport
vehicle, taking two of these units and a single transport does not generate penalties for the second unit since it is
not able to ride in the transport vehicle at the time of deployment. Likewise, if both units are too big to ride in said
transport vehicle neither of them are penalized.

SPACE MARINES
1 Tigurius
1 First Stormraven
2 Each Storm Raven after the first
1 Each Stormtalon after the first (including the first if more than one Flyer in the army)
1 Each Thunderfire Cannon after the first
1 21st scoring model with unit type bike and additional 1 for every 10 thereafter (31st, 41st etc.)*
1 Each 5th model with unit type bike with Gravgun*
1 3rd unit of bikes in a White scars detachment (2nd if Khan is the warlord)
1 4th Dedicated transport vehicle in the army that is able to scout
1 Each Chapter master / Captain with unit type bike and 2+ save and 3+ invurnable save*
1 Each Land Raider after the first
1 5th drop pod, additional 1 for the 7th and the 9th. Count each pod able to carry 3 or more
special/combi-weapons as 2 (don't count close combat weapons or weapons carried by an IC)
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods
1 Bastion (only if Independent Character with Scout special rule in army)
*Including all bikes in the army, only count once for both primary and allied detachment

- Clan Rauukan
Gorgons belt is counted as a 3+ invurnable save (see Space Marines above)

SPACE MARINES - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Allied detachment to Tau
1 First unit of Bikes (only if scoring)
1 First Thunderfire Cannon
1 First Land Raider
Each secondary detachment drop pod counts as two when summarizing for the drop pod penalty
regardless of content.

LBK Mallen 40K 6th V.2.2

SPACE WOLVES
1 Each runepriest after the first, Njal is counted as a rune priest.
1 Each Character on Thunderwolf mount after the first
1 3rd Lonewolf in Terminator armour
1 3rd unit of Long fangs
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods
1 Each Land Raider after the first in army
1 5th drop pod, additional 1 for the 7th and the 9th. Count each drop pod able to carry a Wolfguard
squad as 2 drop pods. Count each Rune priest chosen with Jaws OTWW and is able to deploy in a
drop pod as 2 pods.

SPACE WOLVES - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
Every secondary detachment drop pod counts as two when summarizing for the drop pod penalty
regardless of content.

TAU
1 Etheral (including Aun'Va and Aun'Shi)
1 Commander Shadowsun
1 If one or more in the army: Puretide engram or Multi-Spectrum Suit
1 5th Broadside suit, additional 1 for every 3rd thereafter (count each with High Yield Missile Pod as 2
suits and every 3rd missiledrone as 1 suit)
1 Each Riptide (additional 1 on the second)
1 4th Crisis Bodyguards, additional 1 for the 6th

1 41st Firewarrior
1 61st Kroot
1 5th Markerdrone in a unit (only if Commander with "Drone controller" in army)
1 9th Markerlight, additional 1 for every 6th thereafter
1 3rd Vehicle with Front armour 13
1 9th Vehicle in army, excluding drop pods
1 Each unit of Sniperdrones with 6 or more drones (if Etheral present).

- Farsight Enclave
Count all Characters as the suits they are using (e.g. Oh'Vesa = Riptide)
1 Each unit scoring Crisis suits after the second.

TAU - USED AS ALLIES
- All penalties from primary above apply plus the following:
1 Broadside unit
1 Alliance between Tau and Farsight Enclave
1 Allied Detachment to Eldar

TYRANIDS
1 First unit of Venomthropes
1 Each Flying Hive Tyrant after the first
1 Each Hive Crone after the second (after the first if a Flying Hive Tyrant in army)
1 100th model of Termagants/Hormagaunts/Gargoyles, count each Tervigon/Venomthrope model as
10.
1 2nd Mawloc
1 4th Biovore
1 6th Monstrous Creature / Flying Monstrous Creature in army. And additional 1 for every 2 thereafter.

Dark Star Founding Member
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Nit Picky comp systems arent really going to be useful. Its a mess to tally armies up. If your going to comp simply change the rules of how stuff works. Get rid of allies, change markerlights, etc.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Sorry, but this system is just terrible. There is no justification for the vast majority of those penalties, and it seems like you just decided that anyone taking sensible choices in their army needs to be punished. Instead of making up a complicated list like this just be honest about your intentions: require everyone to submit their list in advance, and ban everyone who doesn't play the game the way you want them to play it.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

My gaming group broke it already assuming an average allowance of 5pts. Some of us broke it on 3pts or less so while I find it a fun exercise I don't expect people to actively use it.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

No thanks!

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So how does one break this? Wouldnt it be just making different lists. Yes you can still have your toys but not in mass.

Dark Star Founding Member
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Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Grimwulfe wrote:
So how does one break this? Wouldnt it be just making different lists. Yes you can still have your toys but not in mass.


By finding the overpowered things you missed. And since you punished every army the same way there will still be a best army and a most overpowered list in your new version of 40k, so all you've done is add a bit of list-building work to find and exploit it.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So once that happens wouldn't a simple update resolve the issue? A list like this isn't meant to be a static thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/30 19:16:56


Dark Star Founding Member
NOVA 2011 Trios Team Champions and Proud member of Team Bastard
Conflict 2011 Doubles Team Champions
NOVA 2012 Trios Team Champions
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Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Probably not no, there's a lot here that doesn't really make any sense to knock people on (e.g. platoons larger than X infantry squads...they can just take another platoon instead...) and a lot of stuff that doesn't get touched or only very lightly (e.g. 2++ rerollable Screamerstars would probably be middle-of-the-road in terms of comp). Some of these also look like they're going out of their way to find stuff just for their own sake (e.g. Boyz squads over 25...well they can only go to 30 and it's not like 5 boyz is usually going to make all the difference in the world there).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/30 20:27:55


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I wouldn't say screamer star is middle of the road it is roughly 10 points or so with this system. When I see the middle of the road at around 5-6.

Does this need some tweaking from non-subjective parties yes. It is also a good stepping stone and similar to how fantasy has balanced their game.

Dark Star Founding Member
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Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Grimwulfe wrote:
So once that happens wouldn't a simple update resolve the issue? A list like this isn't meant to be a static thing.


So then you have an endless cycle of punishing anyone who tries to bring an effective army by banning the models they just paid a lot of money for. Eventually you have more things banned than allowed and nobody wants to play in your events anymore (if they ever did at all). If the goal is a game in which nobody ever tries to win by building an effective list then why don't you just get rid of prizes and rankings entirely, come up with some fluffy narrative ideas, and have a "let's play a story campaign" weekend where everyone gets some casual games with no incentive to bring a strong list?

 Grimwulfe wrote:
Does this need some tweaking from non-subjective parties yes.


No, it needs to be removed entirely. The vast majority of the things you punish are not even close to overpowered, and pretty much consist of "you're having fun the wrong way, play the game the way I want you to play it" instead of a legitimate attempt at balance. "Tweaking" it just produces a slightly different broken system.

It is also a good stepping stone and similar to how fantasy has balanced their game.


I don't remember WHFB including this kind of comp either. Are you referring to a third-party tournament? And what aspects of that third-party tournament suggest that a system that works in one game (if it does in fact work there) will work in a very different game?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/01 07:43:39


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

For a game where the biggest complaint seems to be over-complexity, this just seems like it would complicate the situation more.

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Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





So while I certainly don't agree with the whole list people seem to have the wrong idea. This is a comp system widely used in Sweden (not created by the OP) it is based (in general) on how things work In their meta and complied by a council there. That does not mean you need to like it. It is also not about just punishing OP units, it is about creating variety and a different meta.

I personally don't take issue with it but then my list comes in at a 2.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Breng77 wrote:
So while I certainly don't agree with the whole list people seem to have the wrong idea. This is a comp system widely used in Sweden


For comparison:
The Swedish health care system is mainly government-funded and decentralized, although private health care also exists. The health care system in Sweden is financed primarily through taxes levied by county councils and municipalities.


Now compare that to the recent work in the U.S. for health insurance and health care.

You may expect there to be other philosophical and political differences as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/04 04:12:46


 
   
Made in no
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

I`ve built lists using swedish comp before, and it is a horrible process. Back and forth all the time to check your comp-points, see if you have missed stuff etc. It takes forever and it is not fun. This is clearly an early version, their 5th ed version was several A4 pages per army, this looks simple compared to the bloated mess the last one became.

You also just shift the balance with comp. Something will always be much better than other stuff.

Comp is bad

Edit: Lol, darkshroud = 1 point?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/04 11:14:49


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Illumini wrote:
I`ve built lists using swedish comp before, and it is a horrible process. Back and forth all the time to check your comp-points, see if you have missed stuff etc. It takes forever and it is not fun. This is clearly an early version, their 5th ed version was several A4 pages per army, this looks simple compared to the bloated mess the last one became.

You also just shift the balance with comp. Something will always be much better than other stuff.

Comp is bad

Edit: Lol, darkshroud = 1 point?



SO I take it you like to play Eldar and Tau all day every day? Many tournies have a glaring and overwhelming amount of these 2 armies in them. I actually prefer to play the other 11 armies as well. Comp allows that and allows them to be at a closer level then just getting curb stomped by the broken dexs.

All good though when the game goes fully out of control and isnt fun anymore maybe then comp will have its day in the sun. WFB did it and the game is so much better for it. Is this the right answer who knows but my objective in posting it was to create dialog on how to make it better or change it so 40k can move forward in a good direction.

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Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Instead of working on comp systems, I recommend you work on 'patches' in an attempt to balance the codices instead of restricting or penalizing people for choices.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





For the record I didn't work on this and haven't worked on this in any way.

I don't work for GW so "patches" are not an option.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

I feel bad for people in Sweden that are forced to use this system.

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Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Oslo Norway

 Grimwulfe wrote:
 Illumini wrote:
I`ve built lists using swedish comp before, and it is a horrible process. Back and forth all the time to check your comp-points, see if you have missed stuff etc. It takes forever and it is not fun. This is clearly an early version, their 5th ed version was several A4 pages per army, this looks simple compared to the bloated mess the last one became.

You also just shift the balance with comp. Something will always be much better than other stuff.

Comp is bad

Edit: Lol, darkshroud = 1 point?



SO I take it you like to play Eldar and Tau all day every day? Many tournies have a glaring and overwhelming amount of these 2 armies in them. I actually prefer to play the other 11 armies as well. Comp allows that and allows them to be at a closer level then just getting curb stomped by the broken dexs.

All good though when the game goes fully out of control and isnt fun anymore maybe then comp will have its day in the sun. WFB did it and the game is so much better for it. Is this the right answer who knows but my objective in posting it was to create dialog on how to make it better or change it so 40k can move forward in a good direction.


People who like to make boring armies will probably find a way to keep making boring armies. I have played very competitively since late 4th ed, and guess what, some armies are always percieved as better than others, some players always manage to bring a really boring list and the same players that spend the time and money to stay at the top of tourneys will keep staying in the top of tourneys. I don`t mind playing tau or eldar, and at tourneys over here, they have not dominated in neither numbers or placings. Of course, there are lists I would prefer not to play against because they just are boring (gunlines), but that will probably always be the case. 40k is too complex for anybody to be able to "balance" it and bring universal fun for everybody.

IMO, GW`s current strategy of just opening the floodgates have leveled the playing field a lot. I play with everything allowed with friends, including escalation, and it is really fun with tons of viable builds. I think a lot of people spend more time screaming about how everything is so broken than actually playing. Unfortunately, the internet screaming is starting to creep into tourneys here too, where people who have never tried an escalation game scream about how broken it is and are actually managing to sneak comp back into tourneys after so many years without it.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

I think most of the people posting responses are missing the point. For instance:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Grimwulfe wrote:
So once that happens wouldn't a simple update resolve the issue? A list like this isn't meant to be a static thing.

So then you have an endless cycle of punishing anyone who tries to bring an effective army by banning the models they just paid a lot of money for. Eventually you have more things banned than allowed and nobody wants to play in your events anymore (if they ever did at all). If the goal is a game in which nobody ever tries to win by building an effective list then why don't you just get rid of prizes and rankings entirely, come up with some fluffy narrative ideas, and have a "let's play a story campaign" weekend where everyone gets some casual games with no incentive to bring a strong list?

The idea is to avoid banning any unit. You can still take your Riptide. You can still take 3 of them. You just can't take 3 riptides with 3 one-man scoring crises suites, and 9 broadsides. Compare this response to the response to every new codex release. I can't take Mycetic Spores! I'm quitting 40k! Tantrums like that feel good in the moment for those who express them, but generally people just make adjustments. Maybe that player switches to Spare Marines to run a drop pod list. Maybe they use lots of Mawlocs. But they very rarely quit.

And to suggest that assigning points to something is punishing them is rather silly. Is a Carnifex being punished by costing 120 points? What about an Ork Boy's 6 points? A pathfinder is punished because it costs 11 points? The game isn't based on choosing the best units. It is based on choosing the best units on a budget.

GW has done a poor job assigning point values to certain units, and that has led to an unbalanced game. If Riptides cost 270 points instead of 180 the game would be more balanced.

But beyond that, some units are not overpowered by themselves, but only when used in combination with other units. For instance, Marker lights would be far less threatening if they weren't being attached to a Commander with "Drone Controller", Ovesa star is insane, because it is a deathstar with 2 MC's, and a IC that buffs them. You want to bring all of the units in Ovesa star, but not join them together, far less unbalanced.

Since GW doesn't care about balance in their game, and the players do, we are encouraged to take steps to address it. I think releasing fanfic FAQ's is not the best way. I much prefer a system like this that is more of an expansion to the rules than a change to them. Almost all tourneyments already do this through custom mission design, and scoring systems.

If someone would rather rely on their pocket book than their strategy and tactics to win, they will always resist a balanced game, but I think this group is a small minority of all 40k players, and it is a minority that poisons the well for the rest of us. If this particular comp system is unbalanced, or breakable, it can be fixed. The idea that the game can never be more balanced than it is right now is a myth that doesn't stand up to cursory investigation.
   
 
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