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Not sure the Points but i just got this in a trade and trying to figure out how to fill it out some

Lords and Heroes
Big Boss on Wyvern
Grimgore
Boss on a Boar
Boss with Bsb
Two Orc Shamans

Core
16 arrer boys
19 Boys
Two hand Weapons full Command

Special
Spear Chuka
Boar Chairiot
10 Black Orcs
full Command, two hand weapons

Rare
Snotling Pump Wagon
Six Squigs with night goblin musicians
4 Trolls
Giant

any thoughts on how to add to it and about what that is in points and any suggestions on what gear to add? would getting a battalion and some night goblins be a good investment (i do have three fanatics) and maybe beefing up my black orcs

any thoughts of improving what i have would be awesome thanks in advanced
Bama

It's near 2000 points. As for stuff to add, it needs more bodies and more war machines. The orc boys need to be at around 30-35 models to sustain casualties. You could probably roll the arrer boys and regular boys into one unit. Alternately, units of 10 arrer boys work fine as a flank protector.

A typical list (using that term loosely) often has three good sized units of infantry (or two infantry and one unit of monstrous infantry), a couple of units of fast cav, a couple of mangler squigs, a level 4 orc or goblin mage, a BSB, an orc or goblin warboss, and some war machines (two doom divers and two rock lobbers are ideal, but one of each works ok). Fill out the rest of the points as you see fit.

With your current models and minimal purchases, I'd probably make this list at 2500 (no book on me, so don't know exact points):

Cheap Orc Warboss (using grimgor ironhide model)
Level 4 Orc Shaman
Black Orc Boss BSB
3 Night Goblin Big Bosses with great weapons

40 Orc boys with full command, addtl. hand weapons, and standard of discipline
2 units of 5 wolf riders
10 arrer boys
30 Black Orcs
50 Night Goblins with 2-3 fanatics, command, and nets

3 units of 1 troll or 2 units of 2 trolls (in Troll Chariot formation...look it up for more details)
Boar Chariot
2 Mangler Squigs (you can make 2 from one box. Or even better, chain your squig models together and make mangler squig stand-ins to save money)
Doom Diver
Rock Lobber
Spear Chukka
Pump Wagon

This isn't a terrible list and makes it where you only have to buy night goblins, wolf riders, doom diver, rock lobber, some orcs, and some black orcs. You can get the batallion box and fill out the army with spider riders instead of wolf riders. But it saddles you with boar boyz, which you may not want as they aren't that good in 8th edition.

so run grimgore a a black orc boss or reg?
so are spider riders better than wolf riders? or is that suit to taste?

any thoughts on magical gear?

I run a regular orc warboss and run the BSB as a black orc. You save a few points that way and get more weapon skill on your BSB, hopefully letting him live a little longer. But either is fine. You really don't have to have a black orc, but it's nice to have another unit not squabbling.

However, I've had better luck saving the points, putting my shaman in the black orcs, and just letting the regular orcs squabble. The chances are pretty low that they'll roll double ones for animosity and you can use Hand of Gork to move them back into line if you need to.

I like wolf riders because they're faster and cheaper with no gear. It's a unit that's going to die. Better to save 10 points. But spider riders work just as well for a redirector/chaff unit.

On gear, I usually run my general with crown of command, the 4+ ward save, and a great weapon. I run my BSB with the 5+ ward save, ironcurse icon, and a great weapon. I run goblin heroes with great weapons and nothing else.


I also forgot to say that the Big 'Uns upgrade is nearly mandatory with your main orc unit.

As for the mage, I usually run him with a dispel scroll and nothing else. Sometimes I give him a ward save, but I'm usually just trying to throw a lot of dice at foot of gork and trying not to roll low on the miscast.

The real trick to learning to play orcs and goblins (and they've been my main army for a lot of years) in this edition is that they are NOT a great close combat army. They're a decent shooting/mediocre close combat army.

The army works when you have a ton of cheap drops so that the opponent sets up most of his big stuff, then you refuse flank and dump your infantry and war machines on one side of the table. Goblins with fanatics, manglers, and pump wagon protect the flank that's open.

You are far better off sitting still for a few turns, shooting rock lobbers and doom divers and spear chukkas, then Footing units during the magic phase. Then you wipe out what's left in combat. None of your elite units can take on any other army's elite units head on.

thats pretty good advice...well i just recently got in to fantasy hard and heavy...my other options for armies that i own are skaven, brets and lizards.

what are your feelings on savage orcs? cause i like the models and they seem really fun to run. and its an excuse to paint some of them blue. I also like night goblins. and in the middle of a trade to get some.

so beefing up my black orks is a good idea. and adding more boys too. any thing else that would be handy?

Glad to help. All of those are good armies.

On Savage Orcs, they're a mixed bag. They hit a lot harder than regular orcs. They can take on most other units and win for at least a turn or two. But the frenzy means your opponent will be putting chaff units in front of them, meaning that they either sit still or charge and have to overrun in all sorts of crazy directions. I use both at different times and have good luck with both.

My current list has 40 savage orcs with no characters in the unit. I have a bunker of 30 night goblins behind my lines and it has a goblin BSB with standard of discipline, a naked goblin warboss, and an Orc Great Shaman with dispel scroll. I do not like putting a lot of characters in savage orc units since they're so easy to lead away from the rest of your lines.

As for what to add, it's up to you. I recommend using three big combat blocks, but you have lots of options. I have seen and used troll units from 8-18 as a main combat block work with great success. Black Orcs at least 30 strong. Regular Orc Big 'Uns 30-40 strong. Night Goblins 50-100 strong. Savage Orcs 30-40 strong. Squig Herds with 30-40 squigs and 10-30 night goblins.

Those are your usual combat blocks for Orcs and Goblins, at least as far as I've seen in my neck of the woods.

You can look up Malorian on youtube and he has a ton of good info about playing the army. The most recent tournaments I went to had Orcs and Goblins player at table 1.

His list had a unit of regular orc big 'uns with flaming banner, a unit of 10 trolls, and a unit of 40-50 night goblins as his main fighting blocks.

i read on the internet that a savage shaman with a shrunken head is pretty good too.

if all works out with this trade im doing ill have a billion (100) night goblins a doom driver squig hoppers and some other night goblins plus two more spear chuckas to add to the list. so that would beef up my ranks even more and six fanatics

The savage orc with shrunken head is good but again, it's chancy. In a shooty list, he lets your savage orcs live longer by giving them a better ward save. Add in magic resistance and they become pretty durable. But if you get charged, he's not that good on his own. Even with Fencer's Blades giving him WS 10, he's a juicy target with not much of a save. People usually know that the shaman gives a boost to the unit and they drop him ASAP. You can mitigate this by giving him a better ward save or putting other orc characters in the unit to take challenges, but you're just putting more eggs in a fragile, crazy basket. And the more expensive you make that unit, the weaker your other units are. To keep the unit functioning, you're talking savage orc great shaman (smaller one is too easy to kill) with shrunken head, An Orc general and an orc BSB. Even run light on character upgrades, you're talking 700-800 points. It's easy to get to 1000 with this build. While it's not the traditional deathstar for fantasy, it's getting pretty darned close. I'd rather spread my characters out and have multiple units that are capable of fighting and winning combats.

The only time I run him like this anymore is when I'm committed to shooting (i.e. lots of war machines). So they don't fight in combat unless they get charged or they get close to my lines. If I run them across the board, opponents put every speed bump in front of them at odd angles so that the savages never get to fight anything worthwhile.

so the savage shrunken head star is very situational could be good but could also suck.


so to beef out this particular list i need some more boys some more blorcs and some cav to round it out more i think i might get a box of spider riders and wolf riders and see what one i like better.

so the list with stuff would look like this:
Lord
Warboss (general)
Crown of Command, Fencer Blade

Hero
Night Goblin Boss
Great Weapon
Orc Shaman
level 2 Dispel Scroll
Orc Shaman
level one
Black Orc Big Boss
bsb, Charmed Shield

Core
Boys x30
Full Command, Two Hand Weapons
Wolf Riders x8
Command
Arrer Boys x15
Night Goblins x30
Full Command with x3 fanatics and nets

Special
Spear Chuckas x2
Boar Chariot
Black Orcs x30
Full Command

Rare
Giant
Trolls x2
Trolls x2
Pump Wagon

All following advice assuming you want to be reasonably competitive:

The standard horde of S.Orcs with Lvl4 S.Orc Shaman with LSH is standard because it works, and does so the vast majority of the time. In any competitive list - and most non-competitive ones - I'd always include such a unit for that reason. It's not situational at all.

For the Core, drop the Wolf Riders down to a unit of 5 (or two units of 5), and drop the Arrer Boyz and normal Boyz for the aforementioned Savage Horde.

Your characters, add in that Lvl4 S.Orc. The other characters, the Warboss (if you'll still be keeping him) and the BSB, need more protection, they're very important models in an OnG army. If you do keep the Warboss, stick him in the B.Orcs and give the unit the Standard of Discipline.

For your Rare, combine the two Troll units into a unit of 3. Speaking of which, are they normal Trolls? If they are, they're actually special choices. Lone Trolls aren't bad chaff either, so that's an option. I'd consider dropping the Giant. They can be brutal, especially against other Monsters, but most of the time they just die. The points would better be spent on a combination of Doom Divers, Rock Lobbers and Mangler Squigs.

Hope this helps