Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I tested Hydra and Aegis Quad Gun against Vendettas and realised that they do some harm but can't effectively destroying flyers.
Vendetta can kill Hydra in one shooting phase.
Then, I tested Thunderbolt but specialized fighter is worse than Vendetta! And much more point cost!
In my opinion, it's because autocannon not so good against 12 armor. Lsacannons will be much more effective.
And who can shoot lasaccons at flyers? HWT with BS1. Aegis lascannon w only one shot will do nothing. Only another Vendetta?
What they thinking about? If they want to sell more Vendettas as possible, why they don't have such model without converting?

Forgeworld sabers platform with lascannons or vengeance battery with quad Icarus lascannons.

That or join the dark side with vendettas. Forgeworld makes the parts if you are that against converting them.

I just toss enough loota shots at it.. or 18x str 6 from the dakkajet glance that bastard to death!

Mathammer says Dakkajet will deal 1,5 glances to Vendetta
And Vendetta will make 1.87 penetrations and 0.38 glances to Dakkajet.

Pfft screw math hammer yuu clearly nawt played da orky psycic powahs.

If you can get a Stormraven to come in after the Vendettas, it's not unheard of to take one not one, but two Vendettas with one Stormraven. Fly up to the rear of one, hit it with a POTMS melta, then shoot missiles and assault cannon or Lascannon at another one. Nice knowin ya, silly Vendetta(s).

Stormtalons can mount lascannons.

Icarus cannon on aegis lines.

Aforementioned Stormravens.

All that comes to mind specifically for skyborne lascannons, aside from the obvious vendetta.

You must just be having really bad luck. they really arent hard to take down with AA available.
heck, necrons take them down easily with gauss warriors on foot having to roll 6.

If you can, get behind the Vendetta and shoot its AV10, fire first in dogfights (even if it means conceding the first turn) and place your flyer nose to nose or within his minimum movement to stop him from shooting you next turn.

If he hovers, its a win-win as he now only snap fires at your flyer and its vulnerable to all your AT.

 Homeskillet wrote:
If you can get a Stormraven to come in after the Vendettas, it's not unheard of to take one not one, but two Vendettas with one Stormraven. Fly up to the rear of one, hit it with a POTMS melta, then shoot missiles and assault cannon or Lascannon at another one. Nice knowin ya, silly Vendetta(s).

The odds of that are so low, it's not worth consideration.

Martel732 wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
If you can get a Stormraven to come in after the Vendettas, it's not unheard of to take one not one, but two Vendettas with one Stormraven. Fly up to the rear of one, hit it with a POTMS melta, then shoot missiles and assault cannon or Lascannon at another one. Nice knowin ya, silly Vendetta(s).

The odds of that are so low, it's not worth consideration.

25% and 20% chances for MM and LC/Missiles respectively. That is a lot better than shooting a lascannon at a landraider.

 ansacs wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
If you can get a Stormraven to come in after the Vendettas, it's not unheard of to take one not one, but two Vendettas with one Stormraven. Fly up to the rear of one, hit it with a POTMS melta, then shoot missiles and assault cannon or Lascannon at another one. Nice knowin ya, silly Vendetta(s).

The odds of that are so low, it's not worth consideration.

25% and 20% chances for MM and LC/Missiles respectively. That is a lot better than shooting a lascannon at a landraider.

Yeah, i wouldn't consider that too low for consideration Martel. I'll take those odds. Even if I don't destroy them, I'll almost certainly force them to Evade; either way, I win.

Well the nice thing about it is that you probably force two vendettas to jink for the 5 cover save (which these calcs included). You also have a better maximum damage possible than if you shot 1 vendetta.

The only real negative is you might put yourself out of proper positioning later on trying to accomplish this.

 ansacs wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
If you can get a Stormraven to come in after the Vendettas, it's not unheard of to take one not one, but two Vendettas with one Stormraven. Fly up to the rear of one, hit it with a POTMS melta, then shoot missiles and assault cannon or Lascannon at another one. Nice knowin ya, silly Vendetta(s).

The odds of that are so low, it's not worth consideration.

25% and 20% chances for MM and LC/Missiles respectively. That is a lot better than shooting a lascannon at a landraider.

So the odds of both happening is .25 * .2 = 0.05. 5% chance. I'm not counting on my Stormraven to kill ONE Vendetta consistently, much less two.

I have Vendettas. I'm AV 12. I'll take my chances with my superior numbers and frag your expensive ass Stormraven next turn. The Stormraven is so overcosted it makes me very agitated.

Martel732 wrote:

 ansacs wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
If you can get a Stormraven to come in after the Vendettas, it's not unheard of to take one not one, but two Vendettas with one Stormraven. Fly up to the rear of one, hit it with a POTMS melta, then shoot missiles and assault cannon or Lascannon at another one. Nice knowin ya, silly Vendetta(s).

The odds of that are so low, it's not worth consideration.

25% and 20% chances for MM and LC/Missiles respectively. That is a lot better than shooting a lascannon at a landraider.

So the odds of both happening is .25 * .2 = 0.05. 5% chance. I'm not counting on my Stormraven to kill ONE Vendetta consistently, much less two.

I have Vendettas. I'm AV 12. I'll take my chances with my superior numbers and frag your expensive ass Stormraven next turn. The Stormraven is so overcosted it makes me very agitated.

While I am not much of a Mathhammerer, I think your numbers by far underestimate the overall effect that one Stormraven can have on two vendettas. There really aren't any "good" results for the vendetta other than maybe a weapon destroyed once a pen gets through. And you can play mathhammer all you want, but with a twin-linked multi-melta in melta range, the flyer is either going to get penned the vast majority of the time or the flyer will evade and jink it. Either result I'm happy with. As to the second Vendetta, 4 twin-linked assault cannon shots (or 1 twin-linked lascannon) and 2 Stormstrike missiles will also most likely pen at least once or get an Evade; again, I am happy with both of those results, which is 2 neutered Vendettas.

But that's not what happens. 4 TL assault cannons shots and two S 8 missiles are not good vs AV 12. Been there, lived it and math hammered it.

You're also forgetting that many times they will come in and shoot the Stormraven, and it will get to do nothing.

So half the time, the Stormaven dies automatically, and the other half of the time, it can do damage in an if-come-maybe manner.

5% chance is still better than a single LC killing a landraider...people shoot lascannons at landraiders all the time.

Seriously though the real benefit of doing such is that it forces both the vendetta's to jink. 2 vendettas are 60 pts more than a stormraven. So if you manage to come on second and you manage to line both of the vendetta's up and one within 12" (these are the real reasons you don't do it very often) you will have a 25, 20, and 5% chances to kill vendetta 1, 2, and 1+2 that turn. The vendettas will get to snap fire back next turn with a combined 31% chance to kill you assuming you didn't manage to kill one first turn (60% chance with jink). The stormraven under the right conditions can engage two vendettas. Getting those conditions just requires luck and genius in equal proportions.

Really the stormraven is not overpriced it is the vendetta which is vastly under priced. Against any other flyer or combinations of flyers worth it's points the decisions the player makes will determine the outcome of the dogfight not the decision to put it in the list.

The Stormraven's competition being "underpriced" makes it overpriced. It has a ton of useless wargear and relatively useless cargo space.

The Vendetta, Night Scythe, Hell Drake and perhaps Storm Talon are all better fliers.

I'll repeat again: If you come on first, you die like slime and you just flushed 200 pts. There is no air to air victory against Vendettas in my experience without insane dice.

Martel732 wrote:
The Stormraven's competition being "underpriced" makes it overpriced. It has a ton of useless wargear and relatively useless cargo space.

It really isn't though. There is only one flyer that is significantly better than the stormraven at AA/transport duties. If you are not using the stormraven to it's utmost is that the stormraven's fault or yours?

Martel732 wrote:
The Vendetta, Night Scythe, Hell Drake and perhaps Storm Talon are all better fliers.

The vendetta is numerically superior to the stormraven at the stormravens usual purpose, yes. The helldrake has a totally different purpose and is widely acclaimed one of the worst offenders for underpricing. Still the stormraven is the BEST helldrake killer in the game. It has a better chance to kill a helldrake than 260 pts of vendettas do.

The night scythe can be argued to be better but that argument will heavily rely on the dedicated transport slot and the crazy invasion beam rules, it is in not it's AA ability. Nightscythes can be fairly easily out manoeuvred and eliminated by a stormraven.

Stormtalons can be argued either way but the arguements are usually centered around FOC slot and ground attack abilities. The stormraven has better AA overall and is much tougher than even 2 stormtalons.

Martel732 wrote:
I'll repeat again: If you come on first, you die like slime and you just flushed 200 pts. There is no air to air victory against Vendettas in my experience without insane dice.

Die like slime a whooping 60% of the time (assuming the opponent gets 2 vendettas in and doesn't have anything else to do and you don't have any extremely large ruins). So 30% of games. Wow I feel like I cannot possibly compete 100% of the time now! Really I have not actually feared IG in a long time now. I do however play only aggressive SM armies; ravenwing and white scars (bikes or scouting MSU TAC squads in rhinos). So in my games turn 2 is me flooding the opponent's side of the board with bodies.

Two vendettas have roughly a 50% chance to down a single Stormraven, assuming it jinks, via an explodes result. Disregarding glances. I'll plan for it to die, frankly.

Of course this assumes no interceptor, no other targets for the Vendettas, no other fliers on your end, IG player makes both reserve rolls, your flier enters first, no LoS or firing arc troubles.

So, if two Vendettas have a clear shot to my one Raven? I'll write it off as dead. The planet-aligning situation where this occurs makes me not worry about it so much.

". It has a better chance to kill a helldrake than 260 pts of vendettas do. "

I doubt that. 6 TL lascannons have a really, really good chance. The Stormraven, not so much. I've done the math for this, it's not even close if I remember.

Martel732 wrote:
". It has a better chance to kill a helldrake than 260 pts of vendettas do. "

I doubt that. 6 TL lascannons have a really, really good chance. The Stormraven, not so much. I've done the math for this, it's not even close if I remember.

Vendettas are better at taking down another AV12 flyer with a 5+ save.

The Stormraven only comes close if it is equiped with TLMM and TLLC. (these are the best anti armour weapons, I don't know how many people use this loadout).
Using this set up the Raven removes 1.4 hull points per turn, compared with 2 vendettas' 2 per turn.

The vendettas have a 44% chance of getting an "explodes" result, the storm raven's MM has a 25% to get this, 2 missiles have 10%, as does the lascannon.

All in all the vendetta is the stronger anti air choice in this situation. It does not need to rely on the 12 range of the MM, and does not run out of missiles.

The stormraven still works fine however, its just vendettas are that good.

Firestorm Redoubt? BS2? What mathhammer says about that fortification?

You could always ally some tau for broadsides.

what broadcasters? I don't know about xeno things

Vendettas do seem slightly OP.

(No gak)

No, everythng else is underpowered.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
what broadcasters? I don't know about xeno things

Broadsides can be equipped with hymp, and sky fire. A team of three can put out 12 twin linked str 7 shots a time. Or if you equip them with the heavy rail cannon, they get 1 twin linked str 8 ap1 shot.

Interesting... Is it possible to convert thes as something not xeno, like jeep with quad gun?

 Freakazoitt wrote:
Interesting... Is it possible to convert thes as something not xeno, like jeep with quad gun?

Not sure how you would pull that off as they are battle suits.