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A Flying Monstrous Creature can move in two ways, Gliding and Swooping.

Under Gliding it states "If a Flying Monstrous Creature is Gliding, it moves, runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature."

Under Swooping it states "If a Flying Monstrous Crearure is Swooping, it moves exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature, with the following exceptions and clarifications..."

It only moves like that when Swooping or Gliding.
The FMC rules are very clear on when it can select one of those.
When in reserve for example it can't be Swooping or Gliding.


So in general, no it is not described as moving as a Jump unit.
Only when Swooping or Gliding can it claim to be.

Edit: why do we need 3 active threads and 2 polls to cover basically the same question?

So FMCs aren't described as moving like jump units because they only move like jump units when they move?

Does that mean they don't fire two weapons like Monstrous Creatures because the only shoot like Monstrous Creatures while shooting?

Would it also be incorrect to say they do not assault like jump unit because they only assault like jump units when assaulting?

I don't understand the question...

What exactly are you trying to do with your FMC? I'm assuming it's a Demon Prince of some sort?

 grendel083 wrote:
why do we need 3 active threads and 2 polls to cover basically the same question?

I created this one to avoid the bias in the other threads.

Since I've made it abundantly clear that I'm willing to alter the original post in my thread, perhaps you might suggest the changes you think are necessary to 'avoid bias?'

People who have read the title, go "well they don't have Deep Strike, so no" or "well they could before, so yes" and vote without actually reading the thread, unaware of the actual debate. It's clear that some people who actually posted in the thread have neglected to read the discussion. As the first post was edited though to include the major point of debate this thread probably is unnecessary now, though.

This is not a simple yes/no question as both of those answers are incorrect.

The answer to "Are Flying Monstrous Creatures described as moving like Jump units?"

is "Only after you have declared swooping or gliding, not at any other time"

Before the MC is deployed on the table it is neither in swooping or gliding mode...

That is when they are treated as moving like Jump units, treated does not mean described.

Not innately no, otherwise they would be called Jump Monstrous Creatures and then have special rules tying off of that.

Instead, they are Flying Monstrous Creatures, who only move like Jump units when their mode of movement has been chosen.

It is a very specific disconnect from Jump units.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
That is when they are treated as moving like Jump units, treated does not mean described.

The are only described as moving like Jump units when they are swooping or gliding.

If they are not swooping or gliding they are not described as moving like Jump units...

 DeathReaper wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
That is when they are treated as moving like Jump units, treated does not mean described.

The are only described as moving like Jump units when they are swooping or gliding.

If they are not swooping or gliding they are not described as moving like Jump units...

quoted for truth.

If we post a fourth thread, can FMC then illegally deepstrike?

The are only described as moving like Jump units when they are swooping or gliding.

If they are not swooping or gliding they are not described as moving like Jump units...

This is just not true. They are described as moving like jump units fact. That is a true statement at all times. The fact that they have qualifiers for that description is irrelevant the description exists.

 FlingitNow wrote:

The are only described as moving like Jump units when they are swooping or gliding.

If they are not swooping or gliding they are not described as moving like Jump units...

This is just not true. They are described as moving like jump units fact. That is a true statement at all times. The fact that they have qualifiers for that description is irrelevant the description exists.

Sorry, you're flat out wrong there.

Only when Swooping or Gliding are they described as moving like Jump units. No other time.

Unless you can quote a rule?
(you won't find one)

Only when Swooping or Gliding are they described as moving like Jump units. No other time.

So are Swooping or Gliding FMCs still FMCs?

RAW we seem to not have permission to Deep Strike any longer, with the current and recently deceased FAQ's I think RAI GW wants FMC to have the choice.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Only when Swooping or Gliding are they described as moving like Jump units. No other time.

So are Swooping or Gliding FMCs still FMCs?

Yes of course.
Although FMC's are not described as moving as Jump units by default.
Only when Swooping or Gliding are they.

Yes of course.
Although FMC's are not described as moving as Jump units by default.
Only when Swooping or Gliding are they.

So is there anywhere in the rules that describes Gliding FMCs or Swooping FMCs as moving as jump units?

 FlingitNow wrote:

Yes of course.
Although FMC's are not described as moving as Jump units by default.
Only when Swooping or Gliding are they.

So is there anywhere in the rules that describes Gliding FMCs or Swooping FMCs as moving as jump units?

Yes. But in reserve you can not select either.
Find a rule that says they move like Jump units when not Swooping or Gliding.
If you can find that rule (you can't sadly, it doesn't exist) then they absolutley would be able to deepstrike.

Oh god, Fling has hit the thread

Find a rule that says they move like Jump units when not Swooping or Gliding.

Why would I do that? The Jump rules don't require that. They don't require you to be moving like jump units only that you are ever described as being able to move like jump units.

So show a restriction. We have permission to use jump Special rules if described as moving like jump units and we have proof that FMCs are described as moving Jump units when they are either gliding or swooping. Show the restriction on that permission or concede.

 FlingitNow wrote:
They don't require you to be moving like jump units only that you are ever described as being able to move like jump units.

I'm sorry what? You're not actually serious are you?

So if a unit is some point maybe able to move like Jump at a set time, you can move it like that at all times?
Of course you can't! Don't be rediculous.

A bit of wargear that lets you move like a Jump unit for one phase. You think that allows you to always move like that? That's literally what you just said.

If you're not moving like Jump units, you cannot move like Jump units, or use the rules.
Simple as that.

 grendel083 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
They don't require you to be moving like jump units only that you are ever described as being able to move like jump units.

I'm sorry what? You're not actually serious are you?

So if a unit is some point maybe able to move like Jump at a set time, you can move it like that at all times?
Of course you can't! Don't be rediculous.

A bit of wargear that lets you move like a Jump unit for one phase. You think that allows you to always move like that? That's literally what you just said.

If you're not moving like Jump units, you cannot move like Jump units, or use the rules.
Simple as that.

Unit rules are on the unit page, not from wargear etc. What this cares about is moving like jump units (On the Unit page)

 FlingitNow wrote:
We have permission to use jump Special rules if described as moving like jump units

Only at certain times. Reserve not being one of them

and we have proof that FMCs are described as moving Jump units when they are either gliding or swooping.

Yep, and in Reserve they are not Swooping or Gliding.

Show the restriction on that permission or concede.

Done.
I assume you'll concede then? If not don't ask me to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nem wrote:
Unit rules are on the unit page, not from wargear etc. What this cares about is moving like jump units (On the Unit page)

And when in Reserve the model is NOT described as moving like a Jump unit.
It's not Swooping or Gliding. Why are you using those rules?

 FlingitNow wrote:

Find a rule that says they move like Jump units when not Swooping or Gliding.

Why would I do that? The Jump rules don't require that. They don't require you to be moving like jump units only that you are ever described as being able to move like jump units.

So show a restriction. We have permission to use jump Special rules if described as moving like jump units and we have proof that FMCs are described as moving Jump units when they are either gliding or swooping. Show the restriction on that permission or concede.

Well this was quite the bastardization of rules.

FMC are ONLY described as moving exactly like JMC if they are Swooping or Gliding. IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF! You continue to gloss over the ramirications of that little word for some reason.

I'm sorry what? You're not actually serious are you?

So if a unit is some point maybe able to move like Jump at a set time, you can move it like that at all times?
Of course you can't! Don't be rediculous.

A bit of wargear that lets you move like a Jump unit for one phase. You think that allows you to always move like that? That's literally what you just said.

No I didn't. I said that you would answer yes to the question is that unit described as moving like jump units. Not that is can always move like jump units. To get the Jump units special rules you only need to be described as moving like jump infantry.

If you're not moving like Jump units, you cannot move like Jump units, or use the rules.
Simple as that.

No unit ever moves like jump infantry except when they are moving by that logic no unit (even jump units) can use the Deep strike rule as no unit is moving when organising reserves.

Only at certain times. Reserve not being one of them

That's not what the rule asks for. It asks if they are described as moving like jump units. Which they are.

Yep, and in Reserve they are not Swooping or Gliding.

Which we both know has no relevance.

FlingitNow wrote:Show the restriction on that permission or concede.

Done.

Thank you for conceding.

So you wan't a model that is NOT described as moveing like a JMC to move like a JMC?
That's the point you're missing.
They are NOT described like that.

Onyl when Swooping or Gliding are they treated like that. And they're niether in Reserve.

Prove with actual rules that you can select one of these when in Reserve.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Thank you for conceding.

Grow up.

You are only partially correct Fling which then causes your entire argument to fall flat.

Yes, there is a rule that says that if you are described as moving like jump infantry then you follow all the rules for JI and use the same special rules. That is the part that you are clear and correct on.

However, the rules for FMC specifically and clearly tell you exactly when they move exactly like JMC which is ONLY if they are Swooping and Gliding. If the rules for FMC did not have the caveat of being in one of those two flight modes to move exactly like JMC you would be correct. Howver the requirement is clearly stated and thus FMC only follow the rules on page 47 when tuey are either Swooping or Gliding.

You will notice that I continue to incorporate both the rules from page 47 and 49 into the argument, ignoring neither unlike you.

It's that time again, time for a reminder that this is a forum for discussing toy soldiers and there is no meaningful reason to let that drive up anyone's blood pressure. That's why our Rule Number One around here is Be Polite. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Finally:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576454.page