Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I've been building lists and fighting battles as a new Tyranid player with the new Nidz book for the last three weeks. I started out small at 500 and I'm plugging along, unfortunately, it seems as if all the 5th Ed Tyranid knowledge is out of touch now. I'm trying new things and putting units on tables in the hopes of finding something that works for me. The last two games I played I tied on Mission: Scouring with a Null Deployment Salamanders player @ 1,000pts and then got absolutely crushed on Mission: Big Guns by a Tau GunLine @ 1,000pts while playing far too defensively and not ravenously advancing and humping terrain with my units.
Today I'm playing 1,250 against a CSM player. I'd like to go in with this list to try things out and see how they work on the units I'm bringing. I know I'm taking a lot of upgrades here, but again, I'm trying things out.
I'd really like some feedback though, I want to field the best possible choices, not specifically a list of tailored options.
Elite Zoanthrope
Venomthrope - for all dat extra cover
Troop 30 x Termagants - Naked
20 x Hormagaunts - Adrenal Glands (I'd really like to see what Fleet & Furious Charge will do on a few Horms)
Tervigon - Regen
Fast Hive Crone - Regen
Heavy Tyrannofex - Acid Spray, Regen
This all comes out to 1240 total, I think I'm well covered on Synapse. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Remember that Regen only gets back 1 Wound at most a turn, and is 30 points.
I wouldn't put it on the Crone. The Tyrant is iffy. Same for the Tervigon.
A Tyrannofex with Regen is pretty hard to kill, if I were playing this list I would probably just avoid shooting at the TFex, and do my best to avoid it, because it only moves 6" and can only fire the Acid Spray 20" (12" + 8" template).
If you were going to drop a couple of Regens, you could spend your points by giving some Terms Devourers or adding additional Venoms or Zoans or Adding a squad of Gargoyles.
Gargoyles would be doubly good for you because they would give your Hormagaunts a much better chance to actually see close combat.
Lastly, consider switching your Regen on the Tervigon for a Miasma Cannon. That gives it a little bit of offensive power.
One Final Tip. I usually forget to use regen. So I suggest you make up a Psychic card for it to keep under the units who have it. That will help you remember to use it.
My problem with the Crone is *knowing* I only have the one available to me and that it's absolutely going to be gunned down by a Quad Gun or grounded by my opponent focusing a lot of fire at it.
The Tervigon is pretty tough to kill anyway, I figured making that much harder to kill would push it over the edge, especially considering it's a troop and will more than likely end up taking a buttload of fire.
Then again, I did plug in my first and second turns each game I've played so far.
I love the point about the Gargoyles. I may just remove those Regens and toss in a squad of 10 tonight just to get those Horms into CC. Thanks for that tip, that'll probably be huge for me tonight.
I wouldn't worry so much about the Crone being vulnerable to the Quad gun. Any shots at the Crone are shots that aren't targeting the Flyrant, and he does everything the Crone does better.
So last night I was facing off against a CSM list of a Lord on an ADL Quad Gun, a Sorcerer, 2 x 5 Noise Marines with Heavy Noise weapon, one squad of CSM Terminators held in reserve, 3 Obliterators, a CSM Vindicator with some kind of small blast launcher, and one squad of random Havoc (lascannon, assault cannon, heavy bolter, etc. totally random setup)
Almost everything had Regen except the Hive Crone, no Bio-Artefacts, no Warlord traits - we both forgot them.
Deployment was Dawn of War, Mission: Relic
I won deployment rolls and chose to go first, I started with everything on the table, nothing in reserves.
The game opened up with a lot of models on my side of the table and my Gargoyles went to tarpit a squad of Noise Marines FAST. Due to our deployment choices, the Gargoyles sat there and did nothing for a turn. They managed to screen the front of my Hormagaunts and absorb a lot of fire in my opponents opening salvo. and even though I deployed at 12" up on the table. My first turn was basically just advance my position.
CSM turn, CSM opens up with Noise and heavy weapons and rips apart my Gargoyle squad for an easy First Blood. I often wonder what I could have done differently here.
Second turn opened up a few more options to fire at, I focused my Termagants on moving toward my enemies flank to try to tie up his Oblits.CSM's movement allowed them to stay just out of range long enough for his left flank Noise Marines to become a greater threat. I pointed everything else I had at his right flank Noise Marines and melted 2 of them with Acid Spray and Drool Cannon. I took one on his left flank with TL Devourers. CSMs saves were a little sick. I flew my Flyrant and Crone off his back edge to bring them in on reserve the following turn, to help minimize the impact of the Quad Gun.
CSM responded with shots fired at my Tyrannofex, wasting the majority of my Hormagaunt squad, killing my Zoanthrope. So far he's ignored my Termagant squad and been focused entirely on my front lines.
Third turn was a quick reserve, both FMCs flew back on and vector struck the Warlord Sorcerer he Deep Struck behind my Tfex. My Tfex took some wounds down to 2 from Heavy weapons, Acid Spray liquified some more Noise Marines, Devourers from the Flyrant killed some more Noise Marines and I glanced out the Vindicator with a Vector Strike and three Haywire missiles, one missile each turn the Crone was in.
Fourth turn things turned bleak. He has now melted two full units, thankfully Synapse kept my Hormagaunts Fearless and they made it into CC with the Sorcerer. The Tyrannofex goes down to heavy shots, the Horms are wasted in CC and still, no one controls the Relic. CSM turns shots on my Flyrant, grounding it and killing it out with Noise Shots. CSM now has First Blood and Warlord.
Fifth Turn it turns a little for Tyranids. Tervigon makes CC with the Sorcerer, Terms make CC with the Oblits, Crone Vector Strikes out the man on the Quad Gun, this is the second one now, he replaced his Lord, who died earlier on, with the Terminators who finally came in via Deep Strike on turn 4, because CSM apparently can't roll Reserves worth a damn.
We go to turn 6 and I'm booking like mad for the Relic, I don't make it. His Terminators made it difficult to get close enough. Tervigon plants big Scything Talon claws into the Sorcerer netting me Warlord, the Oblits that got tied up in CC with the Termagants kill most of them, CC was a mess, I put one wound on them and the Oblits broke the squad and made them run in turn 5, they backed up and flamed the rest this turn. The Oblits become less effective with fewer targets and my spawning Terms going to the Relic.
Things I learned: I *love* Tyranids. They're *not* a powerful army anymore at all, but I'm really starting to believe that Tyranids aren't about single Unit saturation like other armies are, Tyranids are about the variety of wildly effective choices you have and pointing them at the right targets. I feel as if I missed opportunities with my Gargoyles and that perhaps Regen wasn't so great after all, but for the 90 points I spent on it, I wouldn't have gotten a lot more into the army except more cannon fodder, which I don't have built yet anyway.
I'm adding in Hive Guard ASAP, I can't wait to play a DakkaFex and I'm fairly certain a few AP2 pie plates from a Mawloc would have ruined those Oblits day.
Thanks for your feedback Tag.
Hope this wasn't too much of a sprawling, rambling wall of text.
I've been building lists and fighting battles as a new Tyranid player with the new Nidz book for the last three weeks. I started out small at 500 and I'm plugging along, unfortunately, it seems as if all the 5th Ed Tyranid knowledge is out of touch now. I'm trying new things and putting units on tables in the hopes of finding something that works for me. The last two games I played I tied on Mission: Scouring with a Null Deployment Salamanders player @ 1,000pts and then got absolutely crushed on Mission: Big Guns by a Tau GunLine @ 1,000pts while playing far too defensively and not ravenously advancing and humping terrain with my units.
Today I'm playing 1,250 against a CSM player. I'd like to go in with this list to try things out and see how they work on the units I'm bringing. I know I'm taking a lot of upgrades here, but again, I'm trying things out.
I'd really like some feedback though, I want to field the best possible choices, not specifically a list of tailored options.
Elite Zoanthrope
Venomthrope - for all dat extra cover
Troop 30 x Termagants - Naked
20 x Hormagaunts - Adrenal Glands (I'd really like to see what Fleet & Furious Charge will do on a few Horms)
Tervigon - Regen
Fast Hive Crone - Regen
Heavy Tyrannofex - Acid Spray, Regen
This all comes out to 1240 total, I think I'm well covered on Synapse. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Pretty much here to coroborate previous feedback. I wouldn't take regen on anything, especially at 1250.
If you want a bunch of big stompies on the table consider using warriors as your troops. With warriors you get more synapse coverage, tougher troops, better threat range (if you purchase barbed strangler or VC, which i recommend) and best of all you pretty much nerf any templates in you opponents army. With nothing but MCs and multi wound warriors on the table the most they'll ever get out of a template is 3 from your warriors.
If you drop all regens that nets you 120 pts. Exchanging you termagants and hormagaunts for 3 units of 3 warriors will cost you 40 of those points. Use the remaining 80 to replace Hive Crone with another Flyrant.
I would also consider dropping the Tervigon for a dakkafex and maybe another zoan or venom but thats more to taste.
Agreed with above drop all the regen it is pretty worthless. I'd spend the points on an ADL, deploy it along the halfway line and get a 2+ cover save in the first turn or two as you advance. It really ups your chances in those early turns.
CSM turn, CSM opens up with Noise and heavy weapons and rips apart my Gargoyle squad for an easy First Blood. I often wonder what I could have done differently here.
1) If advancing up the table with them, a Squad of 20 would be much better than a squad of 10. A squad of 10 isn't really much of a tarpit.
2) If I do have a fast advancing small squad, a technique to avoid giving up first blood is to make sure the squad conga lines back far enough so that 1 member is out of line of sight from anything that can shoot it.
notbriang wrote: I'm adding in Hive Guard ASAP, I can't wait to play a DakkaFex and I'm fairly certain a few AP2 pie plates from a Mawloc would have ruined those Oblits day.
1) I wouldn't get too excited about Hive Guard. They don't put out that many shots. Mainly useful for vehicles, and Zoanthropes can do essentially the same thing plus provide a psychic power and synapse.
2) Dakka fexes would definitely have helped you here. They put out much more damage than your Tyranofex, and can have a much longer range if you give them a Stranglethorn Cannon.
3) Mawloc are cheap, and fast, but a Tad unreliable. They probably would have done very well against this particular list.
Overall, it looks from your batrep that you need more firepower. A good defense (Tervigon, Tyrannofex, Regen) doesn't help you if you can't also put out an offense. So you might evaluate your list, and see where you were spending points that didn't result in kills.
Probably your biggest offenders for the kills vs points ratio were the Tervigon and the Termagaunts. You have a lot of points tied up there, and you should either try to make them more deadly (Miasma Cannon for Tervigon, Devourer for 10-20 of the Gaunts), or drop them and replace them with something that is more deadly. (3 Warriors + Barbed Strangler, Mawloc or CFexes)
One other trick is adding Spore Mines to empty Fast attack slots. They are cheap (30 points for a max squad of 6), and they can deep strike, and your opponent is going to have to deal with them.
Also consider how deadly a Biovore would have been in this game. Against an infantry gunline he can be very, very effective.
Finally, your list seems to have served you poorly when it comes to timing. Gargoyles were a threat a whole turn before HGaunts. So turn 1 he can kill all of the turn 2 threats. Turn 2 he can kill all of the turn 3 threats. Turn 3 he can kill the Tfex before he can assault. You need to generally keep this from happening. Make sure there are immediate threats left after each turn. That may mean assault with your Flyrant or Crone. Remember that Tyrannofex is a turn 4 threat, and Tervigon is generally a turn 5 threat. So if you are building your lists around those, you may have to play a much slower game, and keep to cover, and avoid outrunning your big guys unless you are sure you can get into assault.
astro_nomicon wrote: If you want a bunch of big stompies on the table consider using warriors as your troops. With warriors you get more synapse coverage, tougher troops, better threat range (if you purchase barbed strangler or VC, which i recommend) and best of all you pretty much nerf any templates in you opponents army. With nothing but MCs and multi wound warriors on the table the most they'll ever get out of a template is 3 from your warriors.
If you drop all regens that nets you 120 pts. Exchanging you termagants and hormagaunts for 3 units of 3 warriors will cost you 40 of those points. Use the remaining 80 to replace Hive Crone with another Flyrant.
I would also consider dropping the Tervigon for a dakkafex and maybe another zoan or venom but thats more to taste.
Warriors haver their place in a Tyranid list, but I'm dubious about spamming them. Try out 1 squad of 3, if it works you can add more later.
I'm dubious about the Acid Spray on the TFex. It's very expensive for what it does. Perhaps using a few 'Fexes would give better overall survivability? All you need is 1 MC to get into the gunlines for an awful time to occur.
WAAAGH Sparky! 1400 (ish) - On the rebound!
Kommander Sparks DKoK 1000 (ish) - Now on the backburner
- Men, you're lucky men. Soon, you'll all be fighting for your planet. Many of you will be dying for your planet. A few of you will be put through a fine mesh screen for your planet. They will be the luckiest of all.
Acid Spray is a free option on a 175 point MC with a 2+ Save and 6 Wounds. It's a S6 AP4 Template with Torrent. Give the Tfex Regen and it's probably one of the harder things, if not the hardest thing to kill in the Tyranid book.
CSM turn, CSM opens up with Noise and heavy weapons and rips apart my Gargoyle squad for an easy First Blood. I often wonder what I could have done differently here.
1) If advancing up the table with them, a Squad of 20 would be much better than a squad of 10. A squad of 10 isn't really much of a tarpit.
2) If I do have a fast advancing small squad, a technique to avoid giving up first blood is to make sure the squad conga lines back far enough so that 1 member is out of line of sight from anything that can shoot it.
notbriang wrote: I'm adding in Hive Guard ASAP, I can't wait to play a DakkaFex and I'm fairly certain a few AP2 pie plates from a Mawloc would have ruined those Oblits day.
1) I wouldn't get too excited about Hive Guard. They don't put out that many shots. Mainly useful for vehicles, and Zoanthropes can do essentially the same thing plus provide a psychic power and synapse.
2) Dakka fexes would definitely have helped you here. They put out much more damage than your Tyranofex, and can have a much longer range if you give them a Stranglethorn Cannon.
3) Mawloc are cheap, and fast, but a Tad unreliable. They probably would have done very well against this particular list.
Overall, it looks from your batrep that you need more firepower. A good defense (Tervigon, Tyrannofex, Regen) doesn't help you if you can't also put out an offense. So you might evaluate your list, and see where you were spending points that didn't result in kills.
Probably your biggest offenders for the kills vs points ratio were the Tervigon and the Termagaunts. You have a lot of points tied up there, and you should either try to make them more deadly (Miasma Cannon for Tervigon, Devourer for 10-20 of the Gaunts), or drop them and replace them with something that is more deadly. (3 Warriors + Barbed Strangler, Mawloc or CFexes)
One other trick is adding Spore Mines to empty Fast attack slots. They are cheap (30 points for a max squad of 6), and they can deep strike, and your opponent is going to have to deal with them.
Also consider how deadly a Biovore would have been in this game. Against an infantry gunline he can be very, very effective.
Finally, your list seems to have served you poorly when it comes to timing. Gargoyles were a threat a whole turn before HGaunts. So turn 1 he can kill all of the turn 2 threats. Turn 2 he can kill all of the turn 3 threats. Turn 3 he can kill the Tfex before he can assault. You need to generally keep this from happening. Make sure there are immediate threats left after each turn. That may mean assault with your Flyrant or Crone. Remember that Tyrannofex is a turn 4 threat, and Tervigon is generally a turn 5 threat. So if you are building your lists around those, you may have to play a much slower game, and keep to cover, and avoid outrunning your big guys unless you are sure you can get into assault.
astro_nomicon wrote: If you want a bunch of big stompies on the table consider using warriors as your troops. With warriors you get more synapse coverage, tougher troops, better threat range (if you purchase barbed strangler or VC, which i recommend) and best of all you pretty much nerf any templates in you opponents army. With nothing but MCs and multi wound warriors on the table the most they'll ever get out of a template is 3 from your warriors.
If you drop all regens that nets you 120 pts. Exchanging you termagants and hormagaunts for 3 units of 3 warriors will cost you 40 of those points. Use the remaining 80 to replace Hive Crone with another Flyrant.
I would also consider dropping the Tervigon for a dakkafex and maybe another zoan or venom but thats more to taste.
Warriors haver their place in a Tyranid list, but I'm dubious about spamming them. Try out 1 squad of 3, if it works you can add more later.
This is such brilliant feedback. I wish I could tip you. I've already invested in a Hive Guard brood and have no regrets about it. I'd like my army pool to be as diverse as possible, as I'm pretty certain that's what this whole army is about now - just a lot of diverse units who can offer far too many threat options and pointing them at specific targets.
I'm curious about more on your feelings on Warriors, I absolutely love the models and I keep toying with buying some.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/30 21:48:37
notbriang wrote: Acid Spray is a free option on a 175 point MC with a 2+ Save and 6 Wounds. It's a S6 AP4 Template with Torrent. Give the Tfex Regen and it's probably one of the harder things, if not the hardest thing to kill in the Tyranid book.
I think he means the Tfex as a whole. It is certainly hard to kill, but it doesn't dish out as much damage as a cheaper CFex. Perhaps he thinks the Fleshborer hive would be a better investment as a weapon because it has the potential to do more damage in many situations. There is a guy in my local meta who tells me the only worthwhile weapon for a TFex is the Rupture Cannon. I disagree, but have had trouble properly utilizing a TFex in games no matter what they are armed with. It has yet to make back its points.
CSM turn, CSM opens up with Noise and heavy weapons and rips apart my Gargoyle squad for an easy First Blood. I often wonder what I could have done differently here.
1) If advancing up the table with them, a Squad of 20 would be much better than a squad of 10. A squad of 10 isn't really much of a tarpit. 2) If I do have a fast advancing small squad, a technique to avoid giving up first blood is to make sure the squad conga lines back far enough so that 1 member is out of line of sight from anything that can shoot it.
notbriang wrote: I'm adding in Hive Guard ASAP, I can't wait to play a DakkaFex and I'm fairly certain a few AP2 pie plates from a Mawloc would have ruined those Oblits day.
1) I wouldn't get too excited about Hive Guard. They don't put out that many shots. Mainly useful for vehicles, and Zoanthropes can do essentially the same thing plus provide a psychic power and synapse. 2) Dakka fexes would definitely have helped you here. They put out much more damage than your Tyranofex, and can have a much longer range if you give them a Stranglethorn Cannon. 3) Mawloc are cheap, and fast, but a Tad unreliable. They probably would have done very well against this particular list.
Overall, it looks from your batrep that you need more firepower. A good defense (Tervigon, Tyrannofex, Regen) doesn't help you if you can't also put out an offense. So you might evaluate your list, and see where you were spending points that didn't result in kills. Probably your biggest offenders for the kills vs points ratio were the Tervigon and the Termagaunts. You have a lot of points tied up there, and you should either try to make them more deadly (Miasma Cannon for Tervigon, Devourer for 10-20 of the Gaunts), or drop them and replace them with something that is more deadly. (3 Warriors + Barbed Strangler, Mawloc or CFexes)
One other trick is adding Spore Mines to empty Fast attack slots. They are cheap (30 points for a max squad of 6), and they can deep strike, and your opponent is going to have to deal with them.
Also consider how deadly a Biovore would have been in this game. Against an infantry gunline he can be very, very effective.
Finally, your list seems to have served you poorly when it comes to timing. Gargoyles were a threat a whole turn before HGaunts. So turn 1 he can kill all of the turn 2 threats. Turn 2 he can kill all of the turn 3 threats. Turn 3 he can kill the Tfex before he can assault. You need to generally keep this from happening. Make sure there are immediate threats left after each turn. That may mean assault with your Flyrant or Crone. Remember that Tyrannofex is a turn 4 threat, and Tervigon is generally a turn 5 threat. So if you are building your lists around those, you may have to play a much slower game, and keep to cover, and avoid outrunning your big guys unless you are sure you can get into assault.
astro_nomicon wrote: If you want a bunch of big stompies on the table consider using warriors as your troops. With warriors you get more synapse coverage, tougher troops, better threat range (if you purchase barbed strangler or VC, which i recommend) and best of all you pretty much nerf any templates in you opponents army. With nothing but MCs and multi wound warriors on the table the most they'll ever get out of a template is 3 from your warriors.
If you drop all regens that nets you 120 pts. Exchanging you termagants and hormagaunts for 3 units of 3 warriors will cost you 40 of those points. Use the remaining 80 to replace Hive Crone with another Flyrant. I would also consider dropping the Tervigon for a dakkafex and maybe another zoan or venom but thats more to taste.
Warriors haver their place in a Tyranid list, but I'm dubious about spamming them. Try out 1 squad of 3, if it works you can add more later.
This is such brilliant feedback. I wish I could tip you. I've already invested in a Hive Guard brood and have no regrets about it. I'd like my army pool to be as diverse as possible, as I'm pretty certain that's what this whole army is about now - just a lot of diverse units who can offer far too many threat options and pointing them at specific targets.
I'm curious about more on your feelings on Warriors, I absolutely love the models and I keep toying with buying some.
On paper, Warriors are not very good (too expensive). But in games they always outperform for me. I think part of this is that my opponent view them as not a threat, and so doesn't bother shooting at them. I run a squad with 3 warriors 2 Devourers 1 Barbed Strangler. They sit back and babysit my long range bugs (Biovore, Exocrine, sometimes a min squad of Gaunts), and they take a backfield objective. I've only ever fired the Devourers a few times, most of the time, they might as well be a Tank firing the Barbed Strangler. Somehow they always manage to kill their points worth.
That being said, they are fragile, and if an opponent did ever decide to target them, it wouldn't be long. That is why I'm dubious about large quantities of them. I think that people who propose to use them as an offensive force would be better off with Devourer Gaunts, or Biovores.
They probably work well in some metas, but at my FLGS, everyone has lots of strength 8 weapons. It is on my todo list to try 2 squads of 3 warriors at some point, but first I've got to figure out the right combination to beat Ovesa-star.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/30 23:16:43
The reason you spam Warriors is not because your opponent doesn't have S8 weapons. It is because you want to deny him efficacy on his S3-5 weapons by giving them no targets other than MCs they struggle to scratch or warriors where they are up against 3 wounds a model. Whilst their S8 weaponry is over loaded with targets as they want it IDing warriors but also need it to hurt the monsters. It is about target saturation.
You want to beat O'vesastar you need MC spam. Double Flyrant and lots of adrenal fexes and just flood him with MCs. O'Vesastar isn't great against MCs and is a lot more vulnerable to assault than the Farsight bomb.
FlingitNow wrote: You want to beat O'vesastar you need MC spam. Double Flyrant and lots of adrenal fexes and just flood him with MCs. O'Vesastar isn't great against MCs and is a lot more vulnerable to assault than the Farsight bomb.
Now that seems like a pretty viable strategy. It leaves me wondering - I have a Tau player in my FLGS who lives for Riptides and Gunlines. He insists he's playing "casually". The majority of the time he's playing 1-3 Riptides, an ADL w/Quadgun and several Missilesides and Railsides. He's constantly playing Farsight Enclave Tau lists.
That's what makes me hesitate the most and play far too cautiously, all that TL high S overwatch. Do you have any suggestions to deal with that with a similar idea to this Warrior/MC spam?
FlingitNow wrote: The reason you spam Warriors is not because your opponent doesn't have S8 weapons. It is because you want to deny him efficacy on his S3-5 weapons by giving them no targets other than MCs they struggle to scratch or warriors where they are up against 3 wounds a model. Whilst their S8 weaponry is over loaded with targets as they want it IDing warriors but also need it to hurt the monsters. It is about target saturation.
You make a good argument, but I'm not sure the #'s work out that way.
For the cost of one Warrior you can get 7.5 TGaunts. So lets say we are talking about 4 Warriors VS 30 TGaunts to simplify the numbers.
10 S 3 hit kills 1.111 Warrior or 5 Gaunts that is 30 points vs. 20 points. The remaining Warriors are 75% as effective, the Gaunts are 83% as effective
10 S 4 hit kills 1.667 Warrior or 6.667 Gaunts that is 30 points vs. 28 points. The remaining Warriors are 75% as effective, the Gaunts are 77% as effective
10 S 5 hit kills 2.222 Warrior or 8.333 Gaunts that is 60 points vs. 32 points. The remaining Warriors are 50% as effective, the Gaunts are 73% as effective
10 S 6-7 hit kills 2.777 Warrior or 8.333 Gaunts that is 60 points vs. 32 points. The remaining Warriors are 50% as effective, the Gaunts are 73% as effective
10 S 8-10 hit kills 4 Warrior (5 if you had that many) or 8.333 Gaunts that is 120 points vs. 32 points. The remaining Warriors are 0% as effective, the Gaunts are 73% as effective
So in Summary, the only weapon strength were warriors are even competitive with Gaunts for efficiency is strength 4. At all other strengths, Gaunts are more efficient, and that is assuming that you maximize your wound allocation.
Warriors are not completely inferior. They provide synapse. They can carry a heavy weapon. They can more easily hide in Terrain. But as far as threat overload, I don't think they provide much.
You want to beat O'vesastar you need MC spam. Double Flyrant and lots of adrenal fexes and just flood him with MCs. O'Vesastar isn't great against MCs and is a lot more vulnerable to assault than the Farsight bomb.
That is the plan for this week. 2 Mawloc, 2 Cfex(Adrenal, Venom, TL Devourer), 2 Flyrant (BS/LW, Schredder Beetles, TL Devourer), Tervigon with Misama, comm relay to make sure it all comes in. If that doesn't work, next week I will come back with 2 more CFexes.
The Rupture cannon is awful on the T-Fex as once you factor in Armour/Cover saves the thing does less than a wound/hp a turn. T-Fexes should be used as a Massive shoot me target that runs at the enemy drawing fire away from everything else. This means keep them cheap! No regen and no Rupture Cannon. Just try to outfit them with a Thorax Swarm and their stock flamer.
If you you've already got your 2 troops then never take upgraded Hormagaunts over Gargoyles. The only thing they have going for them over Gargoyles is that they're 1 point cheaper naked and are scoring. However you don't take Hormagaunts to take objectives you take them to plunge headlong at the enemy and at best deny an objective which a Gargoyle can do anyway.
Try and take 2 Flyrants at games 1250 and over as they're just so much more deadly in pairs.
1250
HQ:
Flyrant, x2 Dev - 230
Flyrant, x2 Dev - 230
Elites:
Venomthrope - 45
Zoanthrope - 50
Troops:
Tervigon - 195
Termagants x30 - 120
Fast Attack:
Gargoyles x13 - 78
Heavy Support:
Dakkafex x2 - 300
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/31 18:14:29
For the first part all you've done is create an argument for your opponent to use his S3-5 firepower on the warriors. Yet your issue with them was their vulnerability to S8. So how much S8 firepower do you reckon the gaunts distract from your MCs? I'm guessing none. Likewise how much S3-5 firepower will your MCs take when there are gaunts that can be targeted instead. How easy is it to hide 30 gaunts compared to 4 warriors? How much Synapse do the gaunts provide for your MCs compared to warriors?
Gaunts do not provide target saturation for monsters as you are best off with entirely different weapons against each. Where as Warriors do as those S8+ that are best against MCs are also best against warriors. Get it now?
That is the plan for this week. 2 Mawloc, 2 Cfex(Adrenal, Venom, TL Devourer), 2 Flyrant (BS/LW, Schredder Beetles, TL Devourer), Tervigon with Misama, comm relay to make sure it all comes in. If that doesn't work, next week I will come back with 2 more CFexes.
So 6-7 MCs how many points is this? 6-7 at 1750+ is not spamming MCs at all though the 8-9 for the following week sounds more like it.
FlingitNow wrote: For the first part all you've done is create an argument for your opponent to use his S3-5 firepower on the warriors. Yet your issue with them was their vulnerability to S8.
....
My issue with Warriors is that they are too expensive for what they do. Yes they are vulnerable to S 8. They are also fairly vulnerable to all other strength shooting. If warriors were T 5, or if they cost 20 points each, or if they got 5 shots instead of 3, then you might see me signing up on the all warriors all the time train. But as it is. Some warriors are useful for synapse, and backfield objective holding, but Gaunts are just so much more cost effective / survivable for everything else. I've only ever had one game when someone shot at my warriors, and it was after all of my MC's were dead.
That is the plan for this week. 2 Mawloc, 2 Cfex(Adrenal, Venom, TL Devourer), 2 Flyrant (BS/LW, Schredder Beetles, TL Devourer), Tervigon with Misama, comm relay to make sure it all comes in. If that doesn't work, next week I will come back with 2 more CFexes.
So 6-7 MCs how many points is this? 6-7 at 1750+ is not spamming MCs at all though the 8-9 for the following week sounds more like it.
I know, but I only have 7 MC's modeled. I was hoping to finish 2 more Cfexes this week, but had too many things come up.
1400 (ish) - On the rebound!
1000 (ish) - Now on the backburner
