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Ok so i am considering scratching the Mordor idea and i've sat down and looked closer at Evil in general and have come up with the following. Please give me your thoughts and opinions on the list at all levels.

250

Hero- Narzug
Warband- 9 Hunter Orcs

Hero- Yazneg- Lance, Warg
Warband- 5 Fell Wargs

Might- 6 Models- 16 Break Point- 8

2 cheap and solid characters, especially Narzug (get to spend a free might point every turn on top of my might pool? OK!) and a decent number of troops.

500

Hero- Narzug
Warband- 12 Hunter Orcs- Warhorn

Hero- Yazneg- Lance, Warg
Warband- 9 Fell Wargs

Hero- Gundabad Orc Captain- Shield
Warband- 12 Gundabad Orcs- Shields

Might- 7 Models- 36 Break Point- 18

750

Azhog- The White Warg

Hero- Narzug
Warband- 12 Hunter Orcs- Warhorn

Hero- Yazneg- Lance, Warg
Warband- 12 Fell Wargs

Hero- Gundabad Orc Captain- Shield
Warband- 12 Gundabad Orcs- Shields

Might- 10 Models- 40 Break Point- 20

So the theory is a healthy mix of hard hitting Hunter Orcs, Durable Gundabad Orcs and fast wargs which are basically a meat shield for delivering Azhog to battle.

Thoughts please guys.

Playing elves like I do, what do you plan on doing against shooty armies? If you can get your wargs to the archers you should be ok but against me at 750 the way I play my elves odds are most of the wargs will die on their way and now you will go 1 on 1 with elves to your orcs. That is a fight you won't win. You have solid troops but imo at 750 playing evil you don't have enough. You have a lot of points sunk in strong heros but they die very easy under weight of attacks. Just how I see it from playing the army I do and what I see looking at that across the table from me.

 namiel wrote:
Playing elves like I do, what do you plan on doing against shooty armies? If you can get your wargs to the archers you should be ok but against me at 750 the way I play my elves odds are most of the wargs will die on their way and now you will go 1 on 1 with elves to your orcs. That is a fight you won't win. You have solid troops but imo at 750 playing evil you don't have enough. You have a lot of points sunk in strong heros but they die very easy under weight of attacks. Just how I see it from playing the army I do and what I see looking at that across the table from me.

Thanks for the reply.

The idea was to use the Defense 6 of the gundabad's to screen the hunters on their way accross the board plus 2 heros backing all that up. 12 wargs plus Azhog and Yazneg with the speed of the unit should be pretty rapid and then azhog and yazneg have fun.

also i was thinking with their speed i should be able to pick and choose my fights with them.

To be honest I think if you want to run the Azog list, the battlefield needs to be littered in terrain. The whole army has very low defence and are actually better on foot.

Maybe consider using a Goblin Town warband lead by the Scribe to gain extra reinforcements anywhere they are needed to the field. They would also help out with your numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry just missed the Gundabad Orcs, the 750 list is exceptionally good. Fast, hard hitting and some high D in the front rank.
The only suggestion I can make is to replace Yazneg with Fimbul the Hunter Orc and move that war band through cover, the fell wargs would not be slowed as they are not Calvary, neither is Fimbul. It should give for more tactical options and you be able to counter enemy in woods with a nice surprise of your own.

If it was me I'd use the named characters as generic heros initially, in order to make your numbers count, then as the points get higher revert to the named ones when it's less of an issue and the increased might/ special rules will be more useful

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
To be honest I think if you want to run the Azog list, the battlefield needs to be littered in terrain. The whole army has very low defence and are actually better on foot.

Maybe consider using a Goblin Town warband lead by the Scribe to gain extra reinforcements anywhere they are needed to the field. They would also help out with your numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry just missed the Gundabad Orcs, the 750 list is exceptionally good. Fast, hard hitting and some high D in the front rank.
The only suggestion I can make is to replace Yazneg with Fimbul the Hunter Orc and move that war band through cover, the fell wargs would not be slowed as they are not Calvary, neither is Fimbul. It should give for more tactical options and you be able to counter enemy in woods with a nice surprise of your own.

Fimbul's Hunt Master only applies to him as far as i can see from his rules.

i have had a bit of a jig around and come up with this list, same model count and breaking point, but far more killy at 750. i call it "Father/Son's Day out"

Hero- Azog

Hero- Bolg
Warband- 12 Hunter Orcs

Hero- Narzug
Warband- 12 Hunter Orcs- 12 Bows

Hero- Hunter Orc Captain- 2 Handed Weapon
Warband- 12 Hunter Orcs

750
Might- 11 Models- 40 Breaking Point- 20

250 is Narzug, 9 Hunter Orcs- 6 Bows, Hunter Captain, 9 Hunter Orcs
500 is Bolg- 9 HO, Narzug- 9 HO-9 Bows, Hunter Captain- 9 HO

The newest list is better but if you are going to run all those hunter Orcs on foot I really think you should mix in some Fell Wargs to compliment the list. Maybe lose the Bows, Orc bows are really bad and you will not kill anything with them, then replace those hunter Orcs with Fell Wargs.

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
The newest list is better but if you are going to run all those hunter Orcs on foot I really think you should mix in some Fell Wargs to compliment the list. Maybe lose the Bows, Orc bows are really bad and you will not kill anything with them, then replace those hunter Orcs with Fell Wargs.

I agree the new list is better, however i do not agree about the bows.

Orcs need 5's to hit, assuming clear line of sight to models.

12 points for bows

12 shots means 4 hits

lets say its against grimhammer dwarfs? so 6's to wound.

averages say you wil do 2 wounds every 3 turns, thats 24 points of damage on average for only 12 points cost.

IMHO they are worth it, even if they only pick one off before combat they have made their points back.

regarding the Wargs, i do think they have a place, mainly as a quick meat shield and for getting to shooty armys fast. The issue i find is fitting them in along with Bolg AND Azog.

I like my list above though i have devised this as well. The idea being that Azog dismounts immediately and the White Warg bounds forward with the Wargs, he has a cool stand fast for wargs and has 3 might of his own!

Azog- White Warg
10 Fell Wargs

Hunter Orc Captain
12 Hunter Orcs

Hunter Orc Captain
12 Hunter Orcs

Hunter Orc Captain
12 Hunter Orcs

=750

Azog and his captains form a formidable battleline advancing behind 10 fast wargs and a 3 Might, auto courage test passing Warg!

I think this is also pretty brutal, only problem is the son (Bolg) has been left behind while Daddy gets to work.

I agree with what your saying about the bows, i just think only having an 18" range and then -1 to hit after moving has really devalued the Orc shooting but I suppose if you can get enough of them to compensate it shouldn't be to much of an issue.

The list above is much more cohesive and I think it would perform a lot better.

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
I agree with what your saying about the bows, i just think only having an 18" range and then -1 to hit after moving has really devalued the Orc shooting but I suppose if you can get enough of them to compensate it shouldn't be to much of an issue.

The list above is much more cohesive and I think it would perform a lot better.

18" is still pretty good on most 4 x 4 boards considering you can start 12" on, so as soon as the enemy move, you move than are in range for the rest of the game unless the opponent hangs back, which isn't a problem for an army that wants to get in your face.

i do like the sheer volume of models in the azog solo list, can't decide whether i want bolg enough or not.

I think Azogs list will be more competitive due to the synergy of the models. The Bolg list however will hit like a brick and then fizzle away as there is no quick response models (Wargs).

Good luck with the league and remember its your decision but I would go with the Azogs warband.

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
I think Azogs list will be more competitive due to the synergy of the models. The Bolg list however will hit like a brick and then fizzle away as there is no quick response models (Wargs).

Good luck with the league and remember its your decision but I would go with the Azogs war band.

Thanks for the reply, i must admit i now agree with you the wargs will be a great addition for speed.

Especially seeing as one the guys in the league is taking mirkwood elves and the wargs and the white warg will bone them over.

What i mean is in case you didn't know the white wargs auto passes courage tests and his stand fast rule can be used by fell wargs so they will never run, but more importantly they'll auto pass terror tests which my friend likes casting on his elves to give him more shooting rounds.

And to really put the cherry on the cake is the Fell Sight special rule fell wargs have which bones his elven cloaks. the cloaks say you cannot see him until you are within 6", however fell sight states the wargs do not require line of sight to charge, meaning i can be 10" from his mirkwoods elves and still charge.

all round nasty!

 mixer86 wrote:

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
I think Azogs list will be more competitive due to the synergy of the models. The Bolg list however will hit like a brick and then fizzle away as there is no quick response models (Wargs).

Good luck with the league and remember its your decision but I would go with the Azogs war band.

Thanks for the reply, i must admit i now agree with you the wargs will be a great addition for speed.

Especially seeing as one the guys in the league is taking mirkwood elves and the wargs and the white warg will bone them over.

What i mean is in case you didn't know the white wargs auto passes courage tests and his stand fast rule can be used by fell wargs so they will never run, but more importantly they'll auto pass terror tests which my friend likes casting on his elves to give him more shooting rounds.

And to really put the cherry on the cake is the Fell Sight special rule fell wargs have which bones his elven cloaks. the cloaks say you cannot see him until you are within 6", however fell sight states the wargs do not require line of sight to charge, meaning i can be 10" from his mirkwoods elves and still charge.

all round nasty!

I would check the faq about the elven cloaks and fell charge. They don't need line of sight, the elven cloak doesn't say it removes line of sight it says "cannot charge from distances greater then 6" ". That to me reads you still need to be within 6" regardless of fell charge.

 namiel wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
I think Azogs list will be more competitive due to the synergy of the models. The Bolg list however will hit like a brick and then fizzle away as there is no quick response models (Wargs).

Good luck with the league and remember its your decision but I would go with the Azogs war band.

Thanks for the reply, i must admit i now agree with you the wargs will be a great addition for speed.

Especially seeing as one the guys in the league is taking mirkwood elves and the wargs and the white warg will bone them over.

What i mean is in case you didn't know the white wargs auto passes courage tests and his stand fast rule can be used by fell wargs so they will never run, but more importantly they'll auto pass terror tests which my friend likes casting on his elves to give him more shooting rounds.

And to really put the cherry on the cake is the Fell Sight special rule fell wargs have which bones his elven cloaks. the cloaks say you cannot see him until you are within 6", however fell sight states the wargs do not require line of sight to charge, meaning i can be 10" from his mirkwoods elves and still charge.

all round nasty!

I would check the faq about the elven cloaks and fell charge. They don't need line of sight, the elven cloak doesn't say it removes line of sight it says "cannot charge from distances greater then 6" ". That to me reads you still need to be within 6" regardless of fell charge.

Elven cloaks state that models with them cannot be seen by the enemy unless within 6". which by extension means they cannot be charged or shot at unless your models are closer than this. Fell sight rule means they do not require line of sight meaning they can charge the elf at there maximum move value. being 10". its one of the only cases where the fell sgiht rule is useful.

 mixer86 wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
I think Azogs list will be more competitive due to the synergy of the models. The Bolg list however will hit like a brick and then fizzle away as there is no quick response models (Wargs).

Good luck with the league and remember its your decision but I would go with the Azogs war band.

Thanks for the reply, i must admit i now agree with you the wargs will be a great addition for speed.

Especially seeing as one the guys in the league is taking mirkwood elves and the wargs and the white warg will bone them over.

What i mean is in case you didn't know the white wargs auto passes courage tests and his stand fast rule can be used by fell wargs so they will never run, but more importantly they'll auto pass terror tests which my friend likes casting on his elves to give him more shooting rounds.

And to really put the cherry on the cake is the Fell Sight special rule fell wargs have which bones his elven cloaks. the cloaks say you cannot see him until you are within 6", however fell sight states the wargs do not require line of sight to charge, meaning i can be 10" from his mirkwoods elves and still charge.

all round nasty!

I would check the faq about the elven cloaks and fell charge. They don't need line of sight, the elven cloak doesn't say it removes line of sight it says "cannot charge from distances greater then 6" ". That to me reads you still need to be within 6" regardless of fell charge.

Elven cloaks state that models with them cannot be seen by the enemy unless within 6". which by extension means they cannot be charged or shot at unless your models are closer than this. Fell sight rule means they do not require line of sight meaning they can charge the elf at there maximum move value. being 10". its one of the only cases where the fell sgiht rule is useful.

I think it can be interpreted both ways. They do not need line of sight but it states that it cannot be seen or targeted(essentially treated as if it was not there). It is a toss up and needs to be faq'ed imo.

The elven cloak is only useful if the model is partially concealed from view. If the model is in the open then the cloak is of no use. so either way I think the fell sight rule would work against models with cloaks as they would start the move out of sight.

In fact fell sight is one of the most useful rules in the game, it allows you to charge hidden enemies that could not be otherwise targeted. As most games should have some blocking Los terrain it makes it even more of use.

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
The elven cloak is only useful if the model is partially concealed from view. If the model is in the open then the cloak is of no use. so either way I think the fell sight rule would work against models with cloaks as they would start the move out of sight.

In fact fell sight is one of the most useful rules in the game, it allows you to charge hidden enemies that could not be otherwise targeted. As most games should have some blocking Los terrain it makes it even more of use.

i agree, but the board for me needs plenty of terrain to make it more tactical else shooting armies have such an advantage over footslogging combat armies.

i think the wargs will serve me well.