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How do psychtrope grenades work against Chariots?What about Rad grandees?

The grenades can affect the rider, but per the faq have no effect on the chariot itself.

 Happyjew wrote:
The grenades can affect the rider, but per the faq have no effect on the chariot itself.

The next question is what allows you to target units inside transports?

You don't target people with grenades they simply effect units you're in combat with.

The rider is involved in the assault. Since the grenades affect all units in the assault, the rider is affected

The rider is never part of the assault. He has permission to exchange blows with enemy models but that's it.

copper.talos wrote:
The rider is never part of the assault. He has permission to exchange blows with enemy models but that's it.

I thought they counted as being in base contact as long as the hull was in base contact. Unless they are not and Necron MSS are wasted on a Catacomb Command Barge riding Overlord.

They do count as being in btb but that is not the same as being part of the assault.

If the rider is considered part of the assault then whenever a chariot is charged it is a disordered charge which is illogical, and if the chariot gets destroyed then the rider would still be engaged in cc, which has been faqed to not happen.

They do count as being in btb but that is not the same as being part of the assault.

The locked in combat rules disagree with this statement.

It's an advanced rule that overides a basic one. The chariot rules even mentions specifically that the rider is never locked in combat.

Yes he gets to be not locked in combat but he's still certainly in the combat.

That leads to two results.
A. Assaulting a chariot with a rider is always a disordered charge. I have never seen anyone play it like that

B. Since the only thing that keeps the rider from being locked in CC is the chariot, if it gets destroyed before the end of CC then the rider must become locked in combat. There is a faq against this.

So no, the rider is never part of the CC. He has specific permissions to exchange blows and be considered in btb contact in order to do so. But in the end that all the permisions he gets. Nothing more.

It's a vehicle until the chariot is destroyed and then IF it was a herald riding it and not just a standard chariot he jumps off and becomes an infantry model.

He is not "embarked" on a chariot. He replaces the normal chariot rider. He cannot be challenged on the chariot, targetted seperately, etc. He can't even disembark until the chariot is destroyed.

In short it's a vehicle until it's destroyed. So no grenades that do not affect vehicles will affect it.

A) no because you only assault the chariot. That the rider then gets involved in the assault due to a special rule is irrelevant you only declared a charge against 1 opponent.
B) that would have been my reading until the FAQ cleared that up which is fine.

I'm sure it's written the unit that swings at a chariot and rider can choose where to place their attacks. So you can hit a rider and the chariot in an assault.

 FlingitNow wrote:

B) that would have been my reading until the FAQ cleared that up which is fine.

Well the chariot rules are badly written and have created a lot of confusion in the beginning. This faq actually clarifies a lot of issues, such as the "is the rider in CC". A model can leave CC under specific conditions. The rider remaining out of CC after its chariot gets destroyed means that it was never part of the CC.

It only shows they are not locked in combat. They are still involved in the assault.

So can the rider consolidate after he kills the enemy unit?

Good point you know what I actually think you're right now.

copper.talos wrote:
That leads to two results.
A. Assaulting a chariot with a rider is always a disordered charge. I have never seen anyone play it like that

B. Since the only thing that keeps the rider from being locked in CC is the chariot, if it gets destroyed before the end of CC then the rider must become locked in combat. There is a faq against this.

So no, the rider is never part of the CC. He has specific permissions to exchange blows and be considered in btb contact in order to do so. But in the end that all the permisions he gets. Nothing more.

Actually A wouldn't be a disordered charge, it would be an impossible one. The initial charger isn't allowed to move into base contact with any unit other than the primary target (the Chariot). As he couldn't move into base contact with the Chariot without also moving into contact with the rider he could never make the charge. You could never even declare the rider as a Secondary target either, as you don't have Line of Sight.

The only way to make the Chariot rules work is if the Rider essentially doesn't exist out of his special permission to attack and be attacked. Although I just noticed that the only models that can make attacks against the rider are those that are in base contact with the chariot, as others aren't granted permission.

I didnt realize that only those models in B2B can hit the rider good catch. On a related subject does the rider benefit from charging? If not does that mean terrain does not effect his initiative?

He didn't charge, so he doesn't benefit from charge specific bonuses. Which also means he doesn't suffer the penalties for terrain.