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So, as the title says I'm going to a tournament soon, and I want to win. Not by being TFG of course, but I most definitely am down with a bit of power gaming. There really aren't any comp restrictions aside from a ban on Special Characters. I have at least one unit of pretty much everything, so don't be afraid of throwing out suggestions to dump stuff and replace it with other things. I'm a fairly experienced Skaven general, and have learned a trick or two in my time, but who amongst us can't learn more from his peers, eh? You'll see it's pretty standard stuff.

Grey Seer (General) w/ Warp-Energy Condenser, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon- 295 pts.
Assassin w/ Blade of Corruption, The Other Trickster's Shard- 170 pts.
Chieftain (BSB) w/ Charmed Shield, Foul Pendant- 105 pts.
Warlock Engineer w/ Lvl. 2 Wizard, Dispel Scroll- 125 pts.
Warlock Engineer w/ Doomrocket, Warplock Pistol- 53 pts.
Clanrats x59 w/ Shield, Full Command, Poisoned Wind Mortar- 350.5 pts.
Clanrats x38 w/ Shield, Full Command, Warpfire Thrower- 261 pts.
Giant Rats x6- 23 pts.
Giant Rats x6- 23 pts.
Skavenslaves x40- 80 pts.
Skavenslaves x40- 80 pts.
Gutter Runners x7 w/ Sling, Poisoned Attacks- 126 pts.
Gutter Runners x7 w/ Sling, Poisoned Attacks- 126 pts.
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90 pts.
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90 pts.

TOTAL: 1,997.5 pts.

The basic plan is to have the Grey Seer and one of the Warlock Engineers bunker up in the big unit of Clanrats, the BSB and the other Engineer in the other block, and have the Skavenslaves flank those units. I'll advance cautiously as I rain down artillery and magic onto the enemy. The "rat darts" will be used to redirect, and the Skavenslaves will run up and block anything that poses a serious threat. I have the expendable Engineer to Skitterlerap on the flank of the enemy and hurl his Doomrocket down the battle line as it's almost guaranteed to hit something, and when it does the results are glorious. Once he's done with that he can stroll around and plink things with his Warplock Pistol. The Gutter Runners will hunt fast cav and war machines, where their big volleys if poisoned rocks should make a mess of things. The Warp Lightning Cannons just hang back and nuke things from afar.

The plan has worked up until now, but I'll be facing a whole new unknown meta.

Oh, I know I have no HPA, but at 2,000 points I've found that they're too big a liability (too many armies have cannons/huge vollies of poisoned shots, etc.) and a massive point sink. My Doomwheel gets blown up real good on its way across the board too, so I am admittedly a bit biased against it.

Help me my fellow Skaven generals, so that I may conquer the surface for the glory of the under-empire!

First off i'm not a great skaven player by far (played a friends army twice) but I have done the warlock engineer trick (which is wonderful) and then the warlock has nothing else to do, maybe throw a magic lvl 1 so he can get a lucky warp lightning or crackcall were it hurts? If anything he can charge a war machine to shot it shooting for a turn!

Reguardless if my info helps or not Good Luck at the Tourament!

Thanks for the well-wishes! Anybody else have some input?

I haven't played Fantasy in a couple years, but I'll see you there on the 22nd? =)

your bunker unit is WAY too big
A bunker unit is designed to be able to soak punishment from shooting and magic, not to hold on in CC forever
If anything nasty reaches your bunker, your characters are going to die horribly and your army will be gone
30 Clanrats are enough as a main bunker (can be handy to have a secondary 20-strong one, but generally a waste of points)
Add Slaves units in front of your bunker (4*40 is good), give them musician (mandatory for swift reform to plug the gaps) and a champion if you can (great to buy you a turn against a big nasty character)
Upgrade your GR units to 9 if you can to only check for panic once you reach 3 losses (or make then 9 and 5)
Your grey seer is the central key to your army, you will eventually be 6-dicing Curse of the Horned Rat, he does want a grounding staff ... badly (more than a WEC, as good as it is)
Warplock pistol on engineer is a waste of points, use him as a redirector / warmachine annoyer once he used his Rocket
Your assassin has no role in your army, he won't be enough to make a difference in CC but he costs you a lot of points, you need to either change how your army is built or drop him

With this kind of list, you NEED a HPA or a duo of doomwheels to run on the flanks, otherwise you simply lack the punch to face anything strong and elite that won't be affected that much by the Rocket and the random Strenght / unreliable WLC

If you drop your clanrats to about 30 each (even if you keep the sadly overpriced weapon teams) and remove the assassin (then tinker with the seer's equipment), that gives you 300-350 points, enough for a duo of wheels and some more toyz.
I would drop the bunkers to say one fingle unit of 40 Clanrats to soak up loads of punishment, then add the Slaves with at least musicians, remove the assassin, add 2 Doomwheels and you should still be able to fit in more Rat Darts (3-4 is ideal)

Alternatively you could use a horde of Stormvermins with a Razor Banner, but they work much better with a punchy warlord or two and some assassins in there, but that changes the focus of the army from defensive to offensive

Hope this helps fellow Rat general!

piperider361 wrote:
I haven't played Fantasy in a couple years, but I'll see you there on the 22nd? =)

You know it!!!

As far as the tweaks are concerned, this is all I can really do:

Grey Seer (general) w/ Earthing Rod, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon- 300 pts.
Chieftain (BSB) w/ Charmed Shield, Foul Pendant- 105 pts.
Warlock Engineer w/ Doomrocket- 45 pts.
Warlock Engineer w/ lvl. 2 Wizard, Dispel Scroll- 125 pts.
39 Clanrats w/ full command, shield, Poisoned Wind Mortar- 265 pts.
30 Clanrats w/ full command, shield, Poisoned Wind Mortar- 220 pts.
9 Giant Rats- 32 pts.
9 Giant Rats- 32 pts.
9 Giant Rats- 32 pts.
40 Skavenslaves w/ musician- 82 pts.
40 Skavenslaves w/ musician- 82 pts.
7 Gutter Runners w/ slings, Poisoned Attacks- 126 pts.
7 Gutter Runners w/ slings, Poisoned Attacks- 126 pts.
Hell Pit Abomination w/ Warpstone Spikes- 250 pts.
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90 pts.
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90 pts.

TOTAL: 1997.5 pts.

I don't have two Doomwheels (just one original one) so I'm going to use the HPA. I'm still a touch iffy, as it either works great or simply evaporates to artillery/poison. Unfortunately I only have 80 slaves painted to drop, and I'll be hacking the arms off of two to make musicians, so that's that. Thanks for the input, and I'll be getting to converting up some new 9-rat movement trays.

Edit: Incomplete army list!

HPA is good, but most armies will destroy it with cannons/flaming attacks, better invest in some Plague Monks with plague banner, if you add a plague priest in them you have a good unit that will shred enemies.
Good list overall, but I think wrong items on grey seer, you should take power scroll for sure, then talisman of preservation or some tokens.

 Etna's Vassal wrote:
So, as the title says I'm going to a tournament soon, and I want to win. Not by being TFG of course, but I most definitely am down with a bit of power gaming. There really aren't any comp restrictions aside from a ban on Special Characters. I have at least one unit of pretty much everything, so don't be afraid of throwing out suggestions to dump stuff and replace it with other things. I'm a fairly experienced Skaven general, and have learned a trick or two in my time, but who amongst us can't learn more from his peers, eh? You'll see it's pretty standard stuff.

Grey Seer (General) w/ Warp-Energy Condenser, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon- 295 pts.
Assassin w/ Blade of Corruption, The Other Trickster's Shard- 170 pts.
Chieftain (BSB) w/ Charmed Shield, Foul Pendant- 105 pts.
Warlock Engineer w/ Lvl. 2 Wizard, Dispel Scroll- 125 pts.
Warlock Engineer w/ Doomrocket, Warplock Pistol- 53 pts.
Clanrats x59 w/ Shield, Full Command, Poisoned Wind Mortar- 350.5 pts.
Clanrats x38 w/ Shield, Full Command, Warpfire Thrower- 261 pts.
Giant Rats x6- 23 pts.
Giant Rats x6- 23 pts.
Skavenslaves x40- 80 pts.
Skavenslaves x40- 80 pts.
Gutter Runners x7 w/ Sling, Poisoned Attacks- 126 pts.
Gutter Runners x7 w/ Sling, Poisoned Attacks- 126 pts.
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90 pts.
Warp Lightning Cannon- 90 pts.

TOTAL: 1,997.5 pts.

The basic plan is to have the Grey Seer and one of the Warlock Engineers bunker up in the big unit of Clanrats, the BSB and the other Engineer in the other block, and have the Skavenslaves flank those units. I'll advance cautiously as I rain down artillery and magic onto the enemy. The "rat darts" will be used to redirect, and the Skavenslaves will run up and block anything that poses a serious threat. I have the expendable Engineer to Skitterlerap on the flank of the enemy and hurl his Doomrocket down the battle line as it's almost guaranteed to hit something, and when it does the results are glorious. Once he's done with that he can stroll around and plink things with his Warplock Pistol. The Gutter Runners will hunt fast cav and war machines, where their big volleys if poisoned rocks should make a mess of things. The Warp Lightning Cannons just hang back and nuke things from afar.

The plan has worked up until now, but I'll be facing a whole new unknown meta.

Oh, I know I have no HPA, but at 2,000 points I've found that they're too big a liability (too many armies have cannons/huge vollies of poisoned shots, etc.) and a massive point sink. My Doomwheel gets blown up real good on its way across the board too, so I am admittedly a bit biased against it.

Help me my fellow Skaven generals, so that I may conquer the surface for the glory of the under-empire!

I'm not a great player but as a skaven player that's played for years I know some tricks here and there. Not sure how much experience you've got.

Anyway I don't think I like a bunch of this. The grey seer and assassin seem to add quite a few points on them. Magic is very random and as such I'm not fond in investing so much into it as skaven at least (some other factions have better magic generation). I'm not entirely sure why you gave the warlock a warplock pistol at all. It won't do much if anything. If slaves are only there to block the enemy's path you might want to only run them in 20-25 models per unit. I mean I suppose your army is alright but what are you going to do in the case of high elves, dark elves or warriors of chaos? I guess if you went straight for the 13th spell that'd work very well but if so you'd want to run a power scroll and even then it's probably a waste of time since your enemy will probably hold their dispel scroll till you throw that spell at them (meaning irresistible force is being prayed for on 6 dice). Magic resistance goes a long way (except against characteristic tests which allow no saves of any kind) and if you don't want your big unit to just get destroyed by one spell you should probably take a 15 pts warlock and throw a magic resistance pendant on him which then goes on the unit (saved my stormvermin a number of times and it's a great boon against any magic spell that might otherwise just destroy your army). The doom rocket warlock is nice as long as your enemy will allow a skitterleap to throw him into your enemy's flank.

I'm not entirely sure that you need all those gutter runners with warp lightning cannons but you need something to kill enemy chaff so that works and cannons kill monsters well enough. I still feel like you could drop some gutter runners for another unit which can kill chaff. I've been contemplating ratling guns myself though I don't know if they're any good. Warpfire throwers are amazing but usually are best when the enemy is just close enough.

So yeah I don't know. I think your army lacks enough hordes or a good punch. You can throw out shooting i'll admit but faced against stuff that is eventually going to hit you in combat you either need a horde, good shooting or something that can handle melee a bit. I suppose that's how flanks will work but if the giant rats should fail or the slaves die your army will fall apart hard. Then again I dunno as at 2,000 pts it might be good. With gutter runners you have a good anti-monster and anti-chaff unit but having 14 total with 7 in each unit is quite expensive. Quite a few things in this list are expensive.

All that said I don't do as well as I should for my time played. Perhaps I just lack all the bodies that I need for the skaven army.

I cant say much that hasnt been said. Mag item config.needs some work. Take out the doom rocketeer put the rocket on the L2 and move the discoll to seer. Give him the scroll and tal.of.pres. Take out iron curse. Reduce the dart size to 5. Take out musicians from slaves and take away the small bus of.clanrats. Reduce the runners to 5 maybe even take out a unit. Take 30 monks w/ plague banner. After that take out a cannon for a doom wheel.or fit.in an assassin w/ weepers and pot of str. Any way you do.it.get those.monks in there and give the seer a tal. of pres. Dont.change your bsb. I equip him the same way and 9/10 he'll survive. Take out the warp.stone spikes from.the abom. As many high elf armies there are these days the spikes may work against you ( phoenix and guard). Remember that ogre maneaters have swift stride. I cant remember that and it always f's me. May the horned one bless you.