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You've been waiting for it, and here it is, My review of the Space Marines' Elite section!

For my coverage of the Unique characters, be sure to look up the first part of this series.
For my coverage of the Generic Characters, be sure to look up the second part of this series.
For my coverage of the Troops Section, be sure to look up the Third part of this series

Happy Reading, I hope my notes have made my scoring system clearer to those who aren't sure. Hopefully, I give a unit or two a different perspective for you. At the very least, I hope I make someone chuckle a little!

Enjoy!

Sternguard aren't scoring without Kantor- why have you talked about them as if they are always so?

Potential to be scoring. I think.

Muulka wrote:
Sternguard aren't scoring without Kantor- why have you talked about them as if they are always so?

I can't see why anyone would bother unless they were scoring.

Would anyone bother if they weren't scoring?

It's like saying that you'd take bikers if they weren't scoring.

I may not agree with all of your ratings. However, I do appreciate you doing them.

Alexi wrote:
I may not agree with all of your ratings. However, I do appreciate you doing them.

That's a good way to be, really.

Don't take anyone elses opinion as your own. It's cool to share an opinion, but if you have a different opinion embrace it. If everyone looks at the competitive game differently, then we get more diversity. This is not a bad thing.

I try to take opinions knowing my mileage may vary. However, almost everyone has an opinion and a warning. I try to use the units while heeding the warnings. See if I cant fix the broken parts you see.

Mixed feelings.

A quick note on Sternguard: I can think of two situations where it can be profitable to take them even though they don't score. As a Salamander player, those master-crafted combi-meltas are sick. (Keep in mind, if you include Vulkan in your list, the bolter half of the combi is master-crafted too.) Also, in an Ultramarines force, Tigurius can reliably be counted on to get Gate of Infinity, if you angle for it, and a teleporting Sternguard squad (buffed by whatever other goodies Tigurius brought with him) is a nasty unit on the field, especially if there is Locator Beacons to negate harmful scatter. Tigurius not only provides the potential for more survivability, but he also provides a way (through Gate) for the unit to escape from close combat.

I had another thought, but I'm not sure which way I feel on it. I think you either don't give terminators enough credit (specifically assault termies) or that you give dreads too much. I have been trying, ever since inheriting a small fleet of dreads, to make them useful, but all they seem to know how to do is suck and die. Assault terminators on the other hand, while admittedly not as great as once they were, provide a much needed counter-agent to the monstrous creatures that have swept in with 6th edition like a Biblical plague. I know that Land Raiders became a little less survivable with the introduction of hull points, but I can still count on one hand the number of times I've lost a Land Raider since 6th ed dropped, and with the exception of one, all the other times were to scarab swarms.

Still, couldn't agree more on the Centurions, Vanguard, Legion of the Damned, or your assessment of the Sternguard. Good stuff. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Fast Attack section, since it has long been, to me, the sparsest section of the codex.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Mixed feelings.

Oh dear.

A quick note on Sternguard: I can think of two situations where it can be profitable to take them even though they don't score. As a Salamander player, those master-crafted combi-meltas are sick. (Keep in mind, if you include Vulkan in your list, the bolter half of the combi is master-crafted too.) Also, in an Ultramarines force, Tigurius can reliably be counted on to get Gate of Infinity, if you angle for it, and a teleporting Sternguard squad (buffed by whatever other goodies Tigurius brought with him) is a nasty unit on the field, especially if there is Locator Beacons to negate harmful scatter. Tigurius not only provides the potential for more survivability, but he also provides a way (through Gate) for the unit to escape from close combat.

You only get master crafted weapons on characters, only the sergeant is a character, right? I guess you're right about vulkan. I don't agree on the tigurius point; I personally wouldn't use tigurius unless GOI didn't scatter - a la farsight bomb. Also, tigurius has a 75% chance of getting any power. I believe you can gate if you're in close combat, since GoI is a blessing cast on a member of your squad. It also stops you being pinned, because you can cast blessings while pinned and you enter play via deepstrike. I don't agree with tigurius at all, but if you want to run him that way, I would love to see it in action.

I had another thought, but I'm not sure which way I feel on it. I think you either don't give terminators enough credit (specifically assault termies) or that you give dreads too much. I have been trying, ever since inheriting a small fleet of dreads, to make them useful, but all they seem to know how to do is suck and die. Assault terminators on the other hand, while admittedly not as great as once they were, provide a much needed counter-agent to the monstrous creatures that have swept in with 6th edition like a Biblical plague. I know that Land Raiders became a little less survivable with the introduction of hull points, but I can still count on one hand the number of times I've lost a Land Raider since 6th ed dropped, and with the exception of one, all the other times were to scarab swarms.

Yes, you're right about Assault Termites. I used them until I moved onto Tau and then onto Sternguard; I actually love them as a concept and as a unit, they just aren't as hardy as they used to be. You're right though. if you wanna soak 600 points into riptide insurance, it's a good move. I don't actually like Dreadnoughts that much; I think S7AP4 spam is silly and wasteful. I think I'd probably rate them lower but because I forced vehicles to have a 5/10 for rules, they get at least a .6 buff. If I were to change this, I'd have to alter transports and I don't want to lose integrity.

Still, couldn't agree more on the Centurions, Vanguard, Legion of the Damned, or your assessment of the Sternguard. Good stuff. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Fast Attack section, since it has long been, to me, the sparsest section of the codex.

I actually really like LotD nowadays; they're not a great unit in competitive play, but they definitely are characterful and are very fun to screw around with!

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

You only get master crafted weapons on characters, only the sergeant is a character, right? I guess you're right about vulkan. I don't agree on the tigurius point; I personally wouldn't use tigurius unless GOI didn't scatter - a la farsight bomb. Also, tigurius has a 75% chance of getting any power. I believe you can gate if you're in close combat, since GoI is a blessing cast on a member of your squad. It also stops you being pinned, because you can cast blessings while pinned and you enter play via deepstrike. I don't agree with tigurius at all, but if you want to run him that way, I would love to see it in action.

Vanguards: heroic intervention was a joke in 5th due to their extreme cost.

Terminators: Terrible because of their 5th edition pricing in 6th ed.

Dreads: Terrible because non-skimmer AV 12 falls apart like wet toilet paper.

All these units are ranking 2.5 or below.

 Jimsolo wrote:


The Salamander chapter tactic only master-crafts a single weapon on characters. Vulkan's ability, however, master-crafts all meltas, multimeltas, and combi-meltas. (Even ones on vehicles.)

I do agree that the scatter on a (at max) eleven man squad can be brutal, which is why I prefer putting it in a pod-heavy list and using the locator beacons to ignore the scatter. (Which, incidentally, also prevents one of the marines from letting go of Tigurius's hand and getting lost in the warp.) One of the advantages of the new random psyker system is that you generate powers before deployment, so on the off chance that Tigurius doesn't get what you need, you can always put him somewhere more useful. I used to run this combo back in 5th, and I was ecstatic when the price reduction to Tigurius was still enough to cover the price increase to the Sternguard.

You haven't known true love until you've seen the look on someone' space as you gate without scattering, a 24 model farsight bomb behind three of their wave serpents and wreck them, with enough shooting to also kill a few dire avengers. It's truly an excellent experience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Vanguards: heroic intervention was a joke in 5th due to their extreme cost.

Terminators: Terrible because of their 5th edition pricing in 6th ed.

Dreads: Terrible because non-skimmer AV 12 falls apart like wet toilet paper.

All these units are ranking 2.5 or below.

These are your personal ratings, Martel?

I agree on vanguards; they were too expensive to be reasonable. Same with terminators now; 40 is excruciating when something like honour guard can fly for 25 with better outputs.

I'm not sure I agree on dreads, they are better behind an ADL which is, of course, an investment, but this is SM tanks we're talking about. You can't expect them not to fall apart like wet toilet paper when there's absolutely nothing special about them.

Count me as someone who's not a fan of dreadnoughts. I don't see the point considering some of the other things you can do in the elites slot with space marines. You're paying for close combat for a unit that is either terrible in close combat (pretty easy to glance them to death with krak grenades, or they just simply don't do enough) or is a more expensive, less durable predator.

Sternguard are one of the best units in the codex if you ask me. Scoring or not, a squad of them popping out of a drop pod tends to inflict a lot of damage, and they tend to absorb some pretty decent punishment just like most MEQ. That many poisoned rounds will wreck most anything not in a 2+ save, and they obliterate any Rangers/Pathfinders brought to the table. Both of which are fairly common units, at least around my neck of the woods. Kind of means you need 3 drop pods so you can have a second squad also in the thick of things on the enemy's first turn for that solid alpha strike, but it's still a pretty good tactic.

Running IF so you can bring Cantor just makes them a really good unit rather than just a really solid unit.

Also side note:

You should mention Vulkan He'stan in the Legion of the Damned section. The way his special rules are worded, it's all units from the detachment gain master crafted meltas and multi-meltas, not just units with Chapter Tactics (Salamanders.) It's one of the better force multipliers with that unit as Slow and Purposeful, mastercrafted Multi-Meltas are pretty sweet.

 SRSFACE wrote:
Count me as someone who's not a fan of dreadnoughts. I don't see the point considering some of the other things you can do in the elites slot with space marines. You're paying for close combat for a unit that is either terrible in close combat (pretty easy to glance them to death with krak grenades, or they just simply don't do enough) or is a more expensive, less durable predator.

Sternguard are one of the best units in the codex if you ask me. Scoring or not, a squad of them popping out of a drop pod tends to inflict a lot of damage, and they tend to absorb some pretty decent punishment just like most MEQ. That many poisoned rounds will wreck most anything not in a 2+ save, and they obliterate any Rangers/Pathfinders brought to the table. Both of which are fairly common units, at least around my neck of the woods. Kind of means you need 3 drop pods so you can have a second squad also in the thick of things on the enemy's first turn for that solid alpha strike, but it's still a pretty good tactic.

Running IF so you can bring Cantor just makes them a really good unit rather than just a really solid unit.

Also side note:

You should mention Vulkan He'stan in the Legion of the Damned section. The way his special rules are worded, it's all units from the detachment gain master crafted meltas and multi-meltas, not just units with Chapter Tactics (Salamanders.) It's one of the better force multipliers with that unit as Slow and Purposeful, mastercrafted Multi-Meltas are pretty sweet.

I suppose that's a fair point. It's basically vulkan's way of giving the powers he used to give.