Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Good Evening (im in Sweden) to you all.

Yesterday I made visit to my loft and all the old boxes full of warhammer bits laying around. After some hours of sorting everything out I ended up with about 2000-3000pts of my old Ulthwe Eldars laing on the floor. Looking at it and thinking about the vast amouts money spended on these I decided to reasemble the entire force and re-paint them. Altough I have been out of the game since the beginning of 5th ed. so I really need some good advice on how to start of with this army. So.. this is whats on the floor -

+HQ+
1 Eldrad
2 Farseers
7 Warlocks
1 Avatar
1 Fuegan
1 Jain Zar

+Elites+
6 Fire Dragons + Exarch
8 Banshees + 2 Exarches

+Troops+
50+ Guardians
(about 20 Storms and 30 Defendsers atm, 0+ for the taking)
5 Support Platforms
10 Dire avengers
4 Jetbikes
8 Rangers

+Fast+
3 Vypers
8 Hawks

+Heavy+
3 Support Platforms
all options avalible
3 Grav Tanks (3 Serpent, 2 Prism or 3 Falcon loadout avalible for all)
3 War Walkers
6 Dark Reapers 2 Exarches
2 Wraithlords


And Im planning to buy an Wraithknight. Or convert one of my Wraithlords to sit on a pile of stone (to make them the right size) like:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/kp13/StrikingScorpWraithLord.jpg but with ranged weapons.

I could make a "standard eldar list" (Farseer, 2x DA in Serpents, 20/2x10 Defenders with BL, 2x3 Jetbikes, Hawks, Wraithknight, Walkers, Shadow Weavers + maby Dragons in serpent) Witch, would be quite good. But alas thats the "standard win list".
So, I would very much like to make some tweaks to a list like the above or dare a new eldar tactic, if there is one.
I would be deeply thankfll for any input, ideas, and actually anything you would say.


-THE FIRST LIST-

--Primary--

+HQ+
Farseer 100

+TROOPS+

Guardians 110
10 men
1 Bright Lance

Guardians 110
10 men
1 Bright Lance

Black Guardians 200
(Avengers)
5 Men (65)
Wave Serpent (135)
Scatter Laser
Holo Fields

Black Guardians 200
(Avengers)
5 Men (65)
Wave Serpent (135)
Scatter Laser
Holo Fields

+Fast+

+HEAVY+

Wraithknight 240

War Walkers 210
3x Star Cannons/Bright Lances
3x Scatter Lasers/Bright Lances

Support Platforms 90
3 Shadow Weavers

1260pts total

Mostly no brainers and 240pts to use. Change and tweak what you what you want. Any input and any ideas are welcome. Hit me.

Yours
J

3 Man Jetbike squads for taking objectives late game and 5x Man Dire Avenger squads in Wave Serpents are very good.

What point level are you playing?

 Feasible wrote:
3 Man Jetbike squads for taking objectives late game and 5x Man Dire Avenger squads in Wave Serpents are very good.

A no brainer. That was the first two troops i picked. The third was a second DA 5man in Serpent (both serpents with Scatters)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
What point level are you playing?

For starters 1500. From my experience its a very good value to build a solid focre on. So thats for starters, I need to get the right feeling for the new ed. Then I'll go for 1850.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First tought: See Above at first post ^

From my knowledge that list looks very good. As Serpents are king now, at 1850 I'd add another.

My opinion is drop MotLG from autarch and drop lance and take shard of anaris for fearless and instant kill, then put him with shining spears.

I like the idea of using black guardians as counts as avengers. Very cool.

As for the list, it is strong. With only 1-2 serpents, holo fields are generally worth it for extra protection. Even though it is expensive, always spring for the star lance on the shining spear exarch. S8 Ap2 at I6 is money in this edition. Monster hunter is nice if you can afford it, but not needed. If you can't find points at all, keep the laser lance.

I am personally not a fan of the lance+scatter build on the walkers, but I know some people are. Mixing strengths creates role confusion, and two lances are better to actually damage/kill armor than one twin linked. Dual scatters are great all purpose walkers, while scatter/starcannon and scatter/shuricannon also have merit.

The support batteries are VERY good, and will draw some serious hate. Deploy them in cover, and consider putting your warlock here instead. Guardians are pretty squishy regardless, and can hustle around the battlefield as needed. The batteries are better to tank shots, and make the best use of conceal&protect, the two best warlock powers. Roll for protect/jinx, then default to conceal and your batteries will soak up some serious fire.

I Also agree that the scatter/lance combo is very unconventional, and double lance is better.
I would drop war lock from guardians, as they are only leadership 7 (i think) and will fail there powers a not helpful amount of times. In the points saved from dropping them i would get shruinken cannons and holo fields for both the serpents.
But, that is kindov the typical eldar list so if you want to try something a little bit different from the norm you have enough troops to go for the swarm eldar aproach.

Avatar, fast shot, disarming strike 215
laughing sear 160

10 guardian defenders Starcannon, 115 (i think)
10 guardian defenders Starcannon 115
10 guardian defenders starcannon 115
20 guardian defenders x2 brightlances, warlock 255
10 dire avengers 130

heavy support
wraithknight
3 war walkers with x6 lances

Those Shining Spears aren't 85 points, but 135. I WISH they were 15 points a piece. That'd be just insane.

Also warlocks are LD8 not 7 (woohoo big difference)

I still say autarch with shard, jetbike, and heck if you have the points pheonix gem to go with the shining spears.

Dr. Serling wrote:

holo fields are generally worth it for extra protection.

I am personally not a fan of the lance+scatter build on the walkers, but I know some people are.

The support batteries are VERY good, and will draw some serious hate.

Fields - Im aware of that, considering the threat they pose to the oppnen they will mos def draw a lot of fire.

Walkers - I took the BL/SL combo due to the lack of Bright Lances I own. Altough I could craft a handfull from Green Stuff.
I have a lot of Scatters and Star Cannons (due to fact that they last saw battle in 4th/5th ed.). Same points, you guys chose the best loadout, hit me.

Araenion wrote:Those Shining Spears aren't 85 points, but 135. I WISH they were 15 points a piece. That'd be just insane.

Typo. Changed them to 3.

Arbiter wrote:Also warlocks are LD8 not 7 (woohoo big difference)

I still say autarch with shard, jetbike, and heck if you have the points pheonix gem to go with the shining spears.

I do agree that both the chard and the gem is nice but the reason I gave him a mantle is explained below -



Ok, the Autarch and the Spears were the last two units I added. The reason that they made it to the list is that I hate to face a gunlinelist (tau/ig) with a gunlinelist of my own. I recently played a tourney with my IG + GK/Henchmen list, wich is a gunline list with a decent amount of mobility, and face real problems vs pure gunlines aka Tau/IG.
So I what I wanted was a sort of a supporting "f*ck up unit" with two roles to fill. 1 Some guys that could get into the enemy lines and be a decent pain the ass. 2. Support the Knight by charging/shooting at strategic targets.

I took the Autarch with mantle for two reasons 1. I would love to convert and paint one. 2. He is fast, he has stealth+shrouded, he can deal some damage to key units (lance + fusion gun).

The Shining Spears was chosen just because I rearly see them played. And mos def cuz of the coolness factor after some nice conversions.


So, some points that I need input on.

1. The Heavy Weapon loadout for Guardians and War Walkers.
2. 235 pts to spend on better tings than an Autarch and some Shining Spears.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sixtyten wrote:

Dr. Serling wrote:

holo fields are generally worth it for extra protection.

I am personally not a fan of the lance+scatter build on the walkers, but I know some people are.

The support batteries are VERY good, and will draw some serious hate.

Fields - Im aware of that, considering the threat they pose to the enemy they will mos def draw a lot of fire.

Walkers - I took the BL/SL combo due to the lack of Bright Lances I own. Altough I could craft a handfull from Green Stuff.
I have a lot of Scatters and Star Cannons (due to fact that they last saw battle in 4th/5th ed.). Same points, you guys chose the best loadout, hit me.

Araenion wrote:Those Shining Spears aren't 85 points, but 135. I WISH they were 15 points a piece. That'd be just insane.

Typo. Changed them to 3.

Arbiter wrote:Also warlocks are LD8 not 7 (woohoo big difference)

I still say autarch with shard, jetbike, and heck if you have the points pheonix gem to go with the shining spears.

I do agree that both the chard and the gem is nice but the reason I gave him a mantle is explained below -



Ok, the Autarch and the Spears were the last two units I added. The reason that they made it to the list is that I hate to face a gunlinelist (tau/ig) with a gunlinelist of my own. I recently played a tourney with my IG + GK/Henchmen list, wich is a gunline list with a decent amount of mobility, and face real problems vs pure gunlines aka Tau/IG.
So I what I wanted was a sort of a supporting "f*ck up unit" with two roles to fill. 1 Some guys that could get into the enemy lines and be a decent pain the ass. 2. Support the Knight by charging/shooting at strategic targets.

I took the Autarch with mantle for two reasons 1. I would love to convert and paint one. 2. He is fast, he has stealth+shrouded, he can deal some damage to key units (lance + fusion gun).

The Shining Spears was chosen just because I rearly see them played. And mos def cuz of the coolness factor after some nice conversions.


So, some points that I need input on.

1. The Heavy Weapon loadout for Guardians and War Walkers.
2. 235 pts to spend on better tings than an Autarch and some Shining Spears.

For 235pts left bulk the guardians to 20, and take duel cannons for support weapons, Mantle seer vs IG/Tau is stupid because markerlights or Colossus and he goes bye bye.

It is better to lose mantle take shard and bulk more spears (you can still have a awesome conversion and play him as a mantle autarch against other people that are not tau or IG).

 Arbiter wrote:
For 235pts left bulk the guardians to 20, and take duel cannons for support weapons, Mantle seer vs IG/Tau is stupid because markerlights or Colossus and he goes bye bye.

It is better to lose mantle take shard and bulk more spears (you can still have a awesome conversion and play him as a mantle autarch against other people that are not tau or IG).

Options:

A. 240pts
Autarch
Jetbike
Shard
Banshee mask

4 Spears
1 Exarch

B. 240

5 Fire Dragons
Exarch
Flamer

Wave Serpent
Scattar/cannons/lances

C. 220

+10 Guardians to each squad 220pa
2x Heavys
20pts to go.

U've allready been suggested a no-brainer-funkilling serpentspam. Yep, it works.

I tried very hardto make the SC platform work but it consistently underperformed for me. In the end the catapults served the purpose of the SC too well. I believe BLs are the optimal choice. It gives the squad a bit of reach when no infantry are around to kill.

If you are going to play 20 foot guardians, then one squad is often better than two. It gives a big place to hide your Farseer and warlock. It also maximizes their psychic abilities. And it has surprising reach with battle focus.

I am sincerely thankfull for all the input you have given me.

 koooaei wrote:
U've allready been suggested a no-brainer-funkilling serpentspam. Yep, it works.

I know. Both the fact that it is good for winning games and that it is booring. As I said in the first post, it is part of the typical "eldar win list", with and Knight, Walkers, Spiders, Farseer and some 3man Bike Squads to take those objectives in late game. I also said that my inention is to make a Eldar list wich works but isnt the prev mentioned so called "standard win list". So hit me with some options. Right now the list is at 1260pts (posted the update above).
Also, I wich it would, but the footdaar list doesnt work. All gunlines and semi gunlines will just blast every bit of them apart. And considering that Eldars arent Marines, they arent particualary good at being fired apart.


So.

1. Solid Fire Base to support nr.2 and nr.3
2. A good offence and pressure units. Right now, I only got one of those and that is the Wraithknight. That lad need som bloody support
3. Mid-Feild/Holding. 20 Guardians are ok. Bu are too fragile.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

serathnal wrote:
I tried very hardto make the SC platform work but it consistently underperformed for me. In the end the catapults served the purpose of the SC too well. I believe BLs are the optimal choice. It gives the squad a bit of reach when no infantry are around to kill.

If you are going to play 20 foot guardians, then one squad is often better than two. It gives a big place to hide your Farseer and warlock. It also maximizes their psychic abilities. And it has surprising reach with battle focus.

True, on both. But cnsidering that I only have 3 scoring units atm. Id rather beef them up for the spare points. But I agree that the BL would be the best option