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So we all know that Kharn has been resurrected multiple times by Khorne, so does that mean that Champions like Abaddon, Ahriman, and Typhus would be resurrected if they were killed as Ahriman and Typhus are like Kharn in that they are the greatest champions of their gods, and obviously Abaddon is the greatest champion of all 4. Or is this all elaborate plot armor?

The Gods of Chaos can be fickle in their affections. They may give their champions incredible powers, only to turn around and throw them to the wolves if it takes their fancy. However, as long as the champion stays true to the ethos of their god and doesn't fall from favour, they may gain boons such as resurrection.

Yup, gods are fickle.

Chaos champions are something of an aberration, though. Usually they become demons or spawn.

You know, perhaps that's what makes them special. They have the strength to resist becoming a completely helpless puppet on the string of a god. Perhaps it's khorne who keeps resurrecting kharne because he wants another chance at turning him into a demon (which he can't if he's dead).

As far as what can kill chaos champions...Tau can shoot them a lot...which usually just results in them getting thrown back into the warp and spit out again.

As far as what could kill them permanent like,. I guess if they died in a particularly humiliating way their patron god could decide they weren't worth the effort anymore and just leave their soul as demon food.

The Emperor managed it against Horus, but I'm not sure anybody else has the combination of knowledge, power, and desire to pull it off though.

Pretty sure one of the emperors guards or an unnamed astartes delivered the killing blow on horus.

But it was the emperor's ultra psychic shriek attack that dispersed horus for good.

Killing their body, as has been mentioned, is not enough.

Unless the story changed (which is possible), an unnamed astartes or guardsman (depending on the version), took the hit for the Emperor which prevented the killing blow, which gave him enough time to eradicate Horus.

The Empreh obliterated Horus' soul and literally unmade his existence. Even proper clones couldn't be made of him, as no soul would inhabit that body (EC tried and it was a flesh automaton with no intrinsic motivation).

I suppose if any alpha-level annihilated a champion, that'd be it. Lucius, will die permanently if anyone kills him and thinks nothing of it (I could see a BT or someone like Sicarius killing him and being disgusted by his existance... taking no pleasure from the deed). Ahriman hates Tzeentch, so I could see that go either way (Tzeentch bringing him back to manipulate him further, or just letting him go). Kharn is simply perfect for Khorne as is (bleeds others and himself for the blood god and adds tons of skulls to the throne... still is an honorable and wise martial mind in his lucid moments). Typhus has been killed, disappears as a chuckling cloud of fat warp flies and reforms wherever, so you're not killing him off either.

I think that if GW did end the current story, Abaddon has been quite busy and this crusade could make it to terra. Which would make this chaos marine very happy. Also thanks for all the answers, it seems that as long as you make one of the 4 happy enough, you're probably coming back.

Abaddon making it to terra would be interesting.

sand.zzz wrote:
Abaddon making it to terra would be interesting.

I'm not sure why GW doesn't do this, they can make a "Siege of Terra" supplement, releases some new models, then clean it all up a deus ex machina their way out to keep the story stagnated like they prefer.

Exactly, progress the story a bit for all of us that follow it, but finish it in a way that lets them continue the never ending war theme.

 Lobukia wrote:
The Empreh obliterated Horus' soul and literally unmade his existence. Even proper clones couldn't be made of him, as no soul would inhabit that body (EC tried and it was a flesh automaton with no intrinsic motivation).

I suppose if any alpha-level annihilated a champion, that'd be it. Lucius, will die permanently if anyone kills him and thinks nothing of it (I could see a BT or someone like Sicarius killing him and being disgusted by his existance... taking no pleasure from the deed). Ahriman hates Tzeentch, so I could see that go either way (Tzeentch bringing him back to manipulate him further, or just letting him go). Kharn is simply perfect for Khorne as is (bleeds others and himself for the blood god and adds tons of skulls to the throne... still is an honorable and wise martial mind in his lucid moments). Typhus has been killed, disappears as a chuckling cloud of fat warp flies and reforms wherever, so you're not killing him off either.

Spoiler:

Abby? Who knows? With Be'lakor helping Abby right now, I think the 13th crusade may be more successful the second time through than the first (which was a solid win all things considered). Especially with presumably Marduk and at least his host, the Legio Vulturus, Ahriman and the Brotherhood of Dust, and Talos reborn (you know that's what it is) with a huge chunk of the NightLords all aiding, in some way, the Black Crusade.

re: Lucius

nobody wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
The Empreh obliterated Horus' soul and literally unmade his existence. Even proper clones couldn't be made of him, as no soul would inhabit that body (EC tried and it was a flesh automaton with no intrinsic motivation).

I suppose if any alpha-level annihilated a champion, that'd be it. Lucius, will die permanently if anyone kills him and thinks nothing of it (I could see a BT or someone like Sicarius killing him and being disgusted by his existance... taking no pleasure from the deed). Ahriman hates Tzeentch, so I could see that go either way (Tzeentch bringing him back to manipulate him further, or just letting him go). Kharn is simply perfect for Khorne as is (bleeds others and himself for the blood god and adds tons of skulls to the throne... still is an honorable and wise martial mind in his lucid moments). Typhus has been killed, disappears as a chuckling cloud of fat warp flies and reforms wherever, so you're not killing him off either.

Spoiler:

Abby? Who knows? With Be'lakor helping Abby right now, I think the 13th crusade may be more successful the second time through than the first (which was a solid win all things considered). Especially with presumably Marduk and at least his host, the Legio Vulturus, Ahriman and the Brotherhood of Dust, and Talos reborn (you know that's what it is) with a huge chunk of the NightLords all aiding, in some way, the Black Crusade.

re: Lucius

Spoiler:

That exact scenario is dealt with during Angel Exterminatus, he still came back

That is true.... I meant his normal "rebirth" of replacing who killed him.

Doesn't abbadon's blade or the axes fielded by Skarbrand have the abbilitiy to destroy even demonic souls...? I thought there was something about it in the dex...

You know, if they progress the plot to Terra, I'd be happy. I even have a fun idea. Abaddon makes it to the Golden Throne and is struck down by Cypher utilizing his sword, whatever it actually is.

Redemption is had by all. The primarchs return. The imperium fragments into the Space Marines against the High Lords of Terra who'd have no reason right now to bow to the whims of a long-dead God's superchildren, because power never relinquishes power willingly. Honestly the HLOT strike me as the most evil mortal beings in 40k.

As for Lucius, a guy like Sicarius might not revel in the deed but thinking even for a moment he did the galaxy a favor by striking down such an evil enemy would be enough for Lucius cursed magic to work. The only way to be rid of him would be if, like, Exterminatus happened and he happened to be on the world unbeknownst to the Inquisition obliterating the planet.

What about some random tyranid taking a bite of Lucius head?

Or a Necron warrior, who is for most purposes a robot?

Or some IG artillery crew, so far away that they don't even know what they are shelling and feel just miserable about lugging 200mm rounds in ice-cold rain?

Hell, what about a minefield deployed by an pioneer regiment that has allready been wiped out by the time Lucius takes THE step forward?

 Kosake wrote:
What about some random tyranid taking a bite of Lucius head?

Or a Necron warrior, who is for most purposes a robot?

Or some IG artillery crew, so far away that they don't even know what they are shelling and feel just miserable about lugging 200mm rounds in ice-cold rain?

Hell, what about a minefield deployed by an pioneer regiment that has allready been wiped out by the time Lucius takes THE step forward?

Or something on a Deathworld that isn't sentient? Lucius the Catachan brainleaf plant

Redemption is had by all. The primarchs return. The imperium fragments into the Space Marines against the High Lords of Terra who'd have no reason right now to bow to the whims of a long-dead God's superchildren, because power never relinquishes power willingly. Honestly the HLOT strike me as the most evil mortal beings in 40k.

And then all of them are devoured piecemeal by the many, many Xenos threats that assail the Imperium currently.

Terrible ending.

What if someone killed Lucius and then killed themselves before he possessed them. From what I've read the possession is not instant.

Humiliating ways to die would be one way.

chaos gods don't like to facepalm.... so they will likely sweep it under the rug.


tripping on a landmine.

killed by the one stray las shot that fired from a lasgun that a lowly private dropped on the ground when his commissar made him jump.

killed by an indigenous fish creature.

killed by a stray tank round not even ment for you, like shooting at a defiler and it curves off and just happens to hit you of all people.

Killed by the lowliest of melee fighters, like being bayonetted to death by a whitesheild or beaten to death by a tau... or worse... killed by a tau drone in melee (dem Frisbees are freakin deadly in cqc....)

tripped over a rock and break your kneck.

Run over by your own tank.

drowned in pool of blood 1 inch deep.

etc...

 XT-1984 wrote:
What if someone killed Lucius and then killed themselves before he possessed them. From what I've read the possession is not instant.

That's always what I thought. I'm sure Slaanesh has thought that one through and causes that person to be very proud and arrogant of the deed.

 herpguy wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:
What if someone killed Lucius and then killed themselves before he possessed them. From what I've read the possession is not instant.

That's always what I thought. I'm sure Slaanesh has thought that one through and causes that person to be very proud and arrogant of the deed.

But then comes the question if they are killed by an external force.

Like artillery, executed (someone got suspicious and figured it out), general dangers of war.


Like If say.... Space Marine X kills Lucius then gets killed shortly after by... I dunno, a defiler that has gone nuts? or a scattering missile/shell that kills them. Im sure there is no pride in the word "opps" when you kill one of your own.

Very true. I guess there's a lot of things that could go wrong. I'm sure Slaanesh has so much invested in Lucius he could give *some* protection against that happening.

 SRSFACE wrote:


Redemption is had by all. The primarchs return. The imperium fragments into the Space Marines against the High Lords of Terra who'd have no reason right now to bow to the whims of a long-dead God's superchildren, because power never relinquishes power willingly. Honestly the HLOT strike me as the most evil mortal beings in 40k.

given the emperor was setting the high lords up towards the end of the great crusade the HLOT would be IMHO completly justified not turning power over to the primarchs. the EoM I'd say didn't seem to intend them to run the IoM

Kharn745 wrote:
and obviously Abaddon is the greatest champion of all

Is there another Abaddon that I don't know about? Because you can't possibly be talking about Failbaddon, the armless wonder. That idiot would've been Chaos Spawned years ago if he was actually competent enough to get a roll on the boon table.

Regarding Lucius, I'm sure those circumstances would result in his perma-death assuming Slaanesh can't just zap him back to life without taking someone else's body. Of course, this being a work of fiction, that will never happen, if Lucius were to die, he would be killed in mortal kombat by some absurdly humble Ultramarine captain or some gak.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

Kharn745 wrote:
and obviously Abaddon is the greatest champion of all

Is there another Abaddon that I don't know about? Because you can't possibly be talking about Failbaddon, the armless wonder. That idiot would've been Chaos Spawned years ago if he was actually competent enough to get a roll on the boon table.

Regarding Lucius, I'm sure those circumstances would result in his perma-death assuming Slaanesh can't just zap him back to life without taking someone else's body. Of course, this being a work of fiction, that will never happen, if Lucius were to die, he would be killed in mortal kombat by some absurdly humble Ultramarine captain or some gak.

That's the beauty of it. An absurdly arrogant UM would work (and there's plenty of those). So arrogant that Lucius is beneath his notice and forgotten immediately. However, Slaanesh has restored Lucius without a new host before, so it's all moot anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 SRSFACE wrote:


Redemption is had by all. The primarchs return. The imperium fragments into the Space Marines against the High Lords of Terra who'd have no reason right now to bow to the whims of a long-dead God's superchildren, because power never relinquishes power willingly. Honestly the HLOT strike me as the most evil mortal beings in 40k.

given the emperor was setting the high lords up towards the end of the great crusade the HLOT would be IMHO completly justified not turning power over to the primarchs. the EoM I'd say didn't seem to intend them to run the IoM

Space Marines had the power to replace the HLoT before and passed. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Beheading#.UvnDjJm9LCQ

The Daemon Sword Unpronouncable wouldn't work - it's sapient, so it would probably turn into Lucius itself. Which could be amusing. Abaddon suddenly finds out his sword is a space marine, and wants to make out with him...

I think, in cases where these eternal Champions might suffer some mishap that would cause their premature demise around their Gods' planning, said God would probably ask Tzeentch to intercede since his domain is the million-to-one chance.

Which pretty much protects anyone except Typhoid.

"Souls are both currency and playthings in the realm of warp.", Johan Orion, the Librarian of the Blood Ravens, just nailed it.

The Ruinous Powers would simply reform the champions' bodies and fill it with either daemonic spirits, or the owner's original soul again when they see fit and most useful to their cause.