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Playing in a local tournament.

One of my GK opponent is using aquilla cannon + corteaz + purgation equipped with 4x physcannons

In addition he is fielding 2 dreadnight and two troops that consist of servitors and the normal trooper similar to ig troops.

I am using a space marine force with 3 drop pods, 15 sternguards with 10 combi melta and 5 combi plasma, stormraven, scouts and scout bikes, 5 man tactical squad with melta gun and chaptermaster with flaming sword, shield eternal, jump pack and relic armour.

Problem I have with his list is the aquilla + purgation + corteaz.

Its firing d cannon on any unit on the board without requiring los, intercept all incoming dropods with physcannons. and he gets to reroll all shots. The only thing I know that can beat this is using njal to block his ability but I am not a wolf army.

Anyone have any idea in beating this gk list?

Bring anything with a D-weapon, destroy his fortification on a 2+. Laugh at your opponent for spending 500+ points on garbage instead of a real unit.

yeah that would be good except I don't like any of the d weapon platform and they are overpriced.

Turtlesoup wrote:
yeah that would be good except I don't like any of the d weapon platform and they are overpriced.

Not sure if serious or just trolling...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
yeah that would be good except I don't like any of the d weapon platform and they are overpriced.

Not sure if serious or just trolling...

why would you think that I am trolling? is my reason of not wanting to use a d cannon not reasonable?

Turtlesoup wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
yeah that would be good except I don't like any of the d weapon platform and they are overpriced.

Not sure if serious or just trolling...

why would you think that I am trolling? is my reason of not wanting to use a d cannon not reasonable?

Calling any of the D-toting units overpriced is rather insane TBH. Str. D is so broken that it isn't even funny.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
yeah that would be good except I don't like any of the d weapon platform and they are overpriced.

Not sure if serious or just trolling...

why would you think that I am trolling? is my reason of not wanting to use a d cannon not reasonable?

Calling any of the D-toting units overpriced is rather insane TBH. Str. D is so broken that it isn't even funny.

True story.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
yeah that would be good except I don't like any of the d weapon platform and they are overpriced.

Not sure if serious or just trolling...

why would you think that I am trolling? is my reason of not wanting to use a d cannon not reasonable?

Calling any of the D-toting units overpriced is rather insane TBH. Str. D is so broken that it isn't even funny.

over priced in term of real money not points. and no they are not insanely powerful. It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful. They are good for 2000+ point game.

Turtlesoup wrote:
over priced in term of real money not points. and no they are not insanely powerful. It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful.

Nope, Str D is insanely powerful. Proxy something and see for yourself.

DoW

Turtlesoup wrote:
It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful.

This. D-weapons are only game-breakingly overpowered when combined with the right list. Unfortunately "the right list" consists of "anything that spends the rest of your points".

I agree with Turtlesoup in regards to "money". I can't wait for my work to get a 3D printer and I can make myself a couple of titans. When anyone asks why I had the machine running day and night to print it out, I'll say it's for "field testing".

 Peregrine wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful.

This. D-weapons are only game-breakingly overpowered when combined with the right list. Unfortunately "the right list" consists of "anything that spends the rest of your points".

For their points, D-carriers are generally not that killy. For 900pts, you can get a lot of firepower that is better against the vast majority of targets than the revenant. In a standard size battle, the list with an expensive D-carrier will have many giant weaknesses as you just don`t have enough pts to cover all your bases.

D is only really good against expensive vehicles.

Also, Coteaz's special rule that allows you to intercept only works on units that deep strike within 12" of him.

And the shooting still uses normal shooting rules so yes he does need LOS. Unless your using a barrage weapon you must have LOS with each model firing.

 Illumini wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful.

This. D-weapons are only game-breakingly overpowered when combined with the right list. Unfortunately "the right list" consists of "anything that spends the rest of your points".

For their points, D-carriers are generally not that killy. For 900pts, you can get a lot of firepower that is better against the vast majority of targets than the revenant. In a standard size battle, the list with an expensive D-carrier will have many giant weaknesses as you just don`t have enough pts to cover all your bases.

D is only really good against expensive vehicles.

And Monstrous Creatures. And anything with an Invulnerable Save. And anything that relies on cover. You're not getting anything that's better than a Revenant for 900 points.

Not all D's are equal.

The revenant is scary good for 900 pts.

The stompa sucks diseased money wang in a D-Battle, as it will die before it even gets to move, let alone smack stuff with it's d-strength saw...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Illumini wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful.

This. D-weapons are only game-breakingly overpowered when combined with the right list. Unfortunately "the right list" consists of "anything that spends the rest of your points".

For their points, D-carriers are generally not that killy. For 900pts, you can get a lot of firepower that is better against the vast majority of targets than the revenant. In a standard size battle, the list with an expensive D-carrier will have many giant weaknesses as you just don`t have enough pts to cover all your bases.

D is only really good against expensive vehicles.

And Monstrous Creatures. And anything with an Invulnerable Save. And anything that relies on cover. You're not getting anything that's better than a Revenant for 900 points.

Lots of stuf has ignore cover, riptides feel just like D for most infantry units. D is not that amazing vs MC`s, you average 3 wounds per hit, so you need to allocate a minimum of 2 D weapons to down even a 4 wound MC. 6 wound MC`s have fairly good chances to survive if you only allocate 2 D to it, and that revenant better make sure it kills anything that can reach it next turn, or it is a 900pts smoking heap of unbalanced list building.

D is a decent counter to invul-saves, but you still have all the problems of it being a large blast. Against stuff like screamers, you need to allocate all 4 D to really start hurting the unit. Even then, you are not guarantieed to take it out, and if the deamon player has made an escalation-ready list, he will have more fast threats which will make that titan have to work some serious overtime to not lose the game.

More relevant to the OP, your sternguard can take out that 600pts gun. Drop them somewhere they can`t be seen by Coteaz and let loose with the meltas. With some luck, Coteaz and his buddies will dissapear from the damage results the building suffers.

The revenant fires 2x2 strength D shots per turn.

Anything that is at Heirodule or lower level of resilience will die to 2 of these shots, and the other 2 can be fired at other targets.

Besides, I suspect that the confusion here is due to Turtlesoup mixing up strength Destroyer weapons (Which everyone else was talking about) and D-cannons.

 Illumini wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Illumini wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful.

This. D-weapons are only game-breakingly overpowered when combined with the right list. Unfortunately "the right list" consists of "anything that spends the rest of your points".

For their points, D-carriers are generally not that killy. For 900pts, you can get a lot of firepower that is better against the vast majority of targets than the revenant. In a standard size battle, the list with an expensive D-carrier will have many giant weaknesses as you just don`t have enough pts to cover all your bases.

D is only really good against expensive vehicles.

...and that revenant better make sure it kills anything that can reach it next turn, or it is a 900pts smoking heap of unbalanced list building.

Revenant moves 36" per turn and still fires all it's weapons at full BS. What is reaching it next turn?

 Illumini wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Illumini wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Turtlesoup wrote:
It is just that if it is combined with certain combination that they are powerful.

This. D-weapons are only game-breakingly overpowered when combined with the right list. Unfortunately "the right list" consists of "anything that spends the rest of your points".

For their points, D-carriers are generally not that killy. For 900pts, you can get a lot of firepower that is better against the vast majority of targets than the revenant. In a standard size battle, the list with an expensive D-carrier will have many giant weaknesses as you just don`t have enough pts to cover all your bases.

D is only really good against expensive vehicles.

...and that revenant better make sure it kills anything that can reach it next turn, or it is a 900pts smoking heap of unbalanced list building.

Revenant moves 36" per turn and still fires all it's weapons at full BS. What is reaching it next turn?

Not Flyers, at AV12 front a Vendetta Squadron or 2 leaves the Revenant a smoking wreck.

 ace101 wrote:
Not Flyers, at AV12 front a Vendetta Squadron or 2 leaves the Revenant a smoking wreck.

No, it really doesn't. Let's take the upper limit of that, two full three-model squadrons of Vendettas. That's 18 shots, or 9 glances or better against AV 12. But the Revenant automatically negates half of those, so we're down to 4.5 HP gone. And then since this is IG, an army with no fast assault units and therefore no way to force the Revenant to move, the Revenant can spend the whole game on top of a skyshield with a farseer for a re-roll. IOW, lose another 75% of those hits. So now we're down to 1.125 glances or better per turn. If your Vendetta squadrons both come in on turn 2, never lose any models, and never have to fly off the table or turn away from the Revenant, you might kill the Revenant by the time the game ends. That's not even close to effective.

And insult to injury? The Vendettas cost 780 points. A Warhound titan, a much more powerful unit that can take out a Revenant in a turn or two (in one shot if it rolls a lucky 6 on the D-weapon table), costs 750 points. And the Warhound is almost certainly going to do way more damage to your opponent's army than the Vendettas if they don't bring a Revenant.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
The revenant fires 2x2 strength D shots per turn.

Anything that is at Heirodule or lower level of resilience will die to 2 of these shots, and the other 2 can be fired at other targets.

Besides, I suspect that the confusion here is due to Turtlesoup mixing up strength Destroyer weapons (Which everyone else was talking about) and D-cannons.

You are not guarantieed to kill a 6 wound MC with D. Blast weapons miss somewhere around 33-50% of the time. 1/6 of the time you hit, you do no wounds. 2/3 of the time you hit, you do 2-4 wounds and of course 1/6 you just kill whatever it used to be.To practically guarantee to kill a 6 wound MC with your revenenant, you need to fire all four D.

Grav weapons are much better against MC`s for their pts than D. They are also better aganst heavy infantry. Meltas are better anti-vehicle for the points, endless things are better anti-light infantry

As he plays marines, I don`t think he has mixed the two up.

Revenant moves 36" per turn and still fires all it's weapons at full BS. What is reaching it next turn?

The good thing about that is that the table is not endless, there is terrain, there are other units taking up space and there are many units with 18+ threat range. That makes for quite big bubbles of "dangerous to land here". I have caught it many times.

 Illumini wrote:
Blast weapons miss somewhere around 33-50% of the time.

Not against MCs/GCs and superheavies. At BS 4 and a 2.5" radius template you can roll a 6 and still hit the exact spot you aimed at, which is a 60% chance for a direct hit. But you can scatter 3" and still easily hit those big targets, which means the real target is a 9 or less on the scatter distance, or an 88% chance of hitting. And that's neglecting prescience from the farseer you're pretty much guaranteed to have anyway.

 Illumini wrote:


You are not guarantieed to kill a 6 wound MC with D. Blast weapons miss somewhere around 33-50% of the time. 1/6 of the time you hit, you do no wounds. 2/3 of the time you hit, you do 2-4 wounds and of course 1/6 you just kill whatever it used to be.To practically guarantee to kill a 6 wound MC with your revenenant, you need to fire all four D.

Grav weapons are much better against MC`s for their pts than D. They are also better aganst heavy infantry. Meltas are better anti-vehicle for the points, endless things are better anti-light infantry

As he plays marines, I don`t think he has mixed the two up.

If the revenant does not have a mantle seer following it around something is terribly wrong.

Melta is NOT better for the points against tanks. A single D shot will remove a tank from across the board. Melta needs to get extremely and unrealistically close.

Grav spam does nothing against daemon MCs.

Finally, D weapons can destroy 2++ rerollable units, a feat NOTHING else can do.

Coteaz can only intercept stuff within his los and 12' from him. So it's not really hard to use droppods so that u're still within rapid fire and out of 12' from coteaz since he still needs to spread the models to avoid blasts.

 Illumini wrote:

2/3 of the time you hit, you do 2-4 wounds

How are you getting 2-4 wounds from a D3+3 range? It's 4-6 wounds, for anything but a Wraithknight you probably won't even need to even roll the second blast template's scatter.

ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Illumini wrote:


You are not guarantieed to kill a 6 wound MC with D. Blast weapons miss somewhere around 33-50% of the time. 1/6 of the time you hit, you do no wounds. 2/3 of the time you hit, you do 2-4 wounds and of course 1/6 you just kill whatever it used to be.To practically guarantee to kill a 6 wound MC with your revenenant, you need to fire all four D.

Grav weapons are much better against MC`s for their pts than D. They are also better aganst heavy infantry. Meltas are better anti-vehicle for the points, endless things are better anti-light infantry

As he plays marines, I don`t think he has mixed the two up.

If the revenant does not have a mantle seer following it around something is terribly wrong.

Melta is NOT better for the points against tanks. A single D shot will remove a tank from across the board. Melta needs to get extremely and unrealistically close.

Grav spam does nothing against daemon MCs.

Finally, D weapons can destroy 2++ rerollable units, a feat NOTHING else can do.

Not saying D is useless, it is really good against vehicles, it is good against MC`s and it is fairly good against the 2++ units. However, it is just not as insanely overpowered as so many claim it to be. You are generally paying through the nose to get D on the table, and in a meta prepared for D, you are far from guarantieed to get those weapons to pull their weight. You can get a lot of firepower for those 900 pts, it can engage much more targets, it will very probably have better survivability and you can probably cover your bases better.

IMO, the Lynx is a better D-slinger than the revenant at < 1850 as it gives you a good weapon without unbalancing your list hopelessly.

Also, when you add a seer, that is 1050pts shooting, not 900. These "for granted" things add up real fast. Try making an actual revenant escalation list at f.ex. 1850pts and you will see that it is just not as easy as everybody makes it out to be. You will have weaknesses. Either against flyers, FMC, psykers, other D, normal shooting, drop pods, fast melee, scouters or in objective games

Lanlaorn wrote:

 Illumini wrote:

2/3 of the time you hit, you do 2-4 wounds

How are you getting 2-4 wounds from a D3+3 range? It's 4-6 wounds, for anything but a Wraithknight you probably won't even need to even roll the second blast template's scatter.

Unless GW have sneak-updated Escalation, 2-5 = D3+1 wounds, not D3+3

I'm away from books but I remember it being D3+3 and D6+6.

 koooaei wrote:
Coteaz can only intercept stuff within his los and 12' from him.

Your opponent might be forgetting the LOS requirement, because of the Purgation squad's "astral aim" ability. You have to arrive within 12" of Coteaz (not his unit) and within his (once again, not his unit's) line of sight.

Lanlaorn wrote:
I'm away from books but I remember it being D3+3 and D6+6.

It is D3+1. D6+6 is correct on a roll of 6, so that is indeed auto-dead anything.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:


Grav spam does nothing against daemon MCs.

Just about this bit - FMC circus lists take Warp-Forged Armor (3+ save) on everything that can take it, because otherwise you're dying to small arms on a 5++. So yeah, grav works.