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Hey, Im just getting into war40k and really like the white scars. I will be mainly be playing semi-competitively with a group of 5 other friends all of which are beginners. To the point, who do you think make the best white scar allys?

Space wolfs for rune priest
DA for libby
Or Inquisition for Coteaz and/or Ordo HQs?

Are attack bikes worth it? What about a storm raven? Any tips/suggestions are welcome

There are a few good options for WS allies.

Space Wolves can give you arguably the best drop-pod troops in the game (Grey Hunters) to add to your infantry presence while still being fast moving, and a Rune Priest is great for ppsychic offence and defence. Perhaps more controversially, they also give you access to Swiftclaw bikers (CC bikers), which, with a rune/wolf priest are pretty devastating CC units.

DA can be nice, but the best bet for them is Ravenwing, and they are probably best solo. Adding just bikes to more bikes is not that helpful, with Black Knights being the only real difference (and possibly outclassed by Gravgun bikers against a lot of targets). Divination is less useful for bikers as most of your weapons are twin-linked anyway.

Inquisition is not that useful at all, simply because there is nothing in the codex (apart from transports) that can keep up with bikers. Nothing WS have really benefits from an Inquisitor that much.

I'd say the best options are:

Iron Hands- they can give you some more durable vehicles (including Rhinos so you could bring tactical squads that can keep up with bikes) and are the best SM choice add some good heavy firepower to a Biker list that may well lack it.

Imperial Guard: Great tanks and hordes of infantry can offset your lack of vehicles and numbers very nicely. Bringing a couple of platoons to sit on objectives means the bikers can be far more aggressive, and you can use Leman Russ tanks or Artillery Batteries to add some serious firepower.

Hope that's of some help.

 Paradigm wrote:
There are a few good options for WS allies.

Space Wolves can give you arguably the best drop-pod troops in the game (Grey Hunters) to add to your infantry presence while still being fast moving, and a Rune Priest is great for ppsychic offence and defence. Perhaps more controversially, they also give you access to Swiftclaw bikers (CC bikers), which, with a rune/wolf priest are pretty devastating CC units.

DA can be nice, but the best bet for them is Ravenwing, and they are probably best solo. Adding just bikes to more bikes is not that helpful, with Black Knights being the only real difference (and possibly outclassed by Gravgun bikers against a lot of targets). Divination is less useful for bikers as most of your weapons are twin-linked anyway.

Inquisition is not that useful at all, simply because there is nothing in the codex (apart from transports) that can keep up with bikers. Nothing WS have really benefits from an Inquisitor that much.

I'd say the best options are:

Iron Hands- they can give you some more durable vehicles (including Rhinos so you could bring tactical squads that can keep up with bikes) and are the best SM choice add some good heavy firepower to a Biker list that may well lack it.

Imperial Guard: Great tanks and hordes of infantry can offset your lack of vehicles and numbers very nicely. Bringing a couple of platoons to sit on objectives means the bikers can be far more aggressive, and you can use Leman Russ tanks or Artillery Batteries to add some serious firepower.

Hope that's of some help.

Of course its helpful

Right now Im stuck trying to choose between these two list/concepts

Korsarro Khan on bike: 150 (Warlord)

5 Bikes w 2 Gravguns 135
5 Bikes w 2 Gravguns 135
5 Bikes w 2 Gravguns 135
5 Bikes w 2 Gravguns 135
5 Bikes w 2 Gravguns 135

Thunderfire Cannon 100
Thunderfire Cannon 100
Storm Raven w Lascannon and Multi Melta 200

Storm Talon w Lascannon 140
Storm Talon w Lascannon 140

Rune Priest, Bike, Chooser of the Slain (Jaws+Murderous Hurricane) 145
Rune Priest, jump pack (Jaws+ Living Lightning) 125

5 Grey Hunters w Flamer 75
(http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/wrath-of-khan-white-scars-in-new.html)

and
WHITE SCARS
Khan on Moondrakkan
Chapter Master on Bike, Artificer Armor, PF, Shield Eternal
Command Squad on Bikes w/ Apothacary
4 bikes w/ 1 Attack Bike w/ MM, 2 Gravguns, 1 Combi Grav
4 bikes w/ 1 Attack Bike w/ MM, 2 Gravguns, 1 Combi Grav
4 bikes w/ 1 Attack Bike w/ MM, 2 Gravguns, 1 Combi Grav
4 bikes w/ 1 Attack Bike w/ MM, 2 Gravguns, 1 Combi Grav
5 bikes w/ 2 Flamers
Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer Missiles
Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer Missiles
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon
DARK ANGEL ALLIES
Librarian lvl 1 on bike, Power Axe
5 Scouts, Snipers, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks
(http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/10/16/captn-dees-feast-of-blades-tournament-report-winner-of-the-40k-open/)


Now obviously the Spacwolf one has FotWW and anti pskyers and would have a better demon matchup and better at helldrakes/demonprinces but I have no idea how good FotWW is in practice. On the other list, I love the synergy between The Libbry giving t he geared out squads re-rolls and I really like the Chapter master. Is it better than a stormraven I dont know?

The point of C:I and why I mention it, is that it could do the same thing as DA in list two with better fire power then Scouts with snipers for almost the same price.

Anyways, not really planning on copying those list, but used them to illustrate two concepts I really like.

Other: Tau. They have awesome long-range firepower that they can ply while your bikes tear downfield to occupy your opponent in assault.

Out of the options you gave us, I go Dark Angels.

I'd say dark angels as deathwing terminator's dropping behind your enemies will make target selection an absolute pain. shoot the termie's or shoot the bikes? Or you can use the raven wing and have even more evil bikes!

The first list looks best to me. Although allies can only take 1 HQ so one Rune Priest has to go, you can put the points into maxing the GH squad and giving them 2 plasma guns and a Drop Pod for some good mobility and something that should hopefully take some heat off the bikes. The WS part of the list is very solid, though, with a good number of bikes and great air support.

A brief note on Jaws is that it is either great or almost useless, depending on the opponent. Against Orks, Guard, Crons and Tau it is amazing, removing low-initiative models with no saves and no chance to Look Out Sir. It's a great character assassin against those armies. However, against Eldar, Demons (I think) and SM, the average initiative is too high to make it effective.

The reason I caution against DA and Inq is ironically the same reason you mention them- divination. As much as it's a great set of powers in its own right, the majority of weapons in a bike list already have re-rolls thanks to being twin-linked. I suppose the TFC could benefit from it, but personally I'd not want to give up an ally slot or points just to TL them.

How about a list like:

WS:

HQ
Khan with bike

Troops:
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)

Fast:
Stromtalon Skyhammer
Stromtalon Skyhammer

Heavy:
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon

Allies: SW
Rune Priest (chooser of the slain, bike)
Rune Priest (chooser of the slain, bike)

Grey Hunter flamers

Combines what I like about both, at the cost of a Chapter Master and a Stormraven . Space Wolfies have special rules that let you take 2 HQ as 1.

I played against a guy testing a WS+Tau tourney list and it was REALLY good.

He took the Tau Commander will all wargear and no weapons and it was just devastating when his 2 chapter masters on bikes and Centurions benefited from the Tau's gadgets.

piratesthatpwn wrote:
How about a list like:

WS:

HQ
Khan with bike

Troops:
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)
Bike Squad (Attack Bike with MM, 2 grav 1 combi grav)

Fast:
Stromtalon Skyhammer
Stromtalon Skyhammer

Heavy:
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon

Allies: SW
Rune Priest (chooser of the slain, bike)
Rune Priest (chooser of the slain, bike)

Grey Hunter flamers

Combines what I like about both, at the cost of a Chapter Master and a Stormraven . Space Wolfies have special rules that let you take 2 HQ as 1.

This. Better if you can include 2 GH squad w Pods though. Then you deep strike on the flanks and Jaws all the I1 units (due to grav bombardment) gotta love it

 SickSix wrote:
I played against a guy testing a WS+Tau tourney list and it was REALLY good.

He took the Tau Commander will all wargear and no weapons and it was just devastating when his 2 chapter masters on bikes and Centurions benefited from the Tau's gadgets.

I have done no research on the Tau, would you explain the build in a little more detail or point me to a blog?

Commander - PENchip, C&C node, MSSS, Iridium armour, VRT, Drone Controller, Neuro web system jammer, 2x Flamer

That's the usual buffmander build. He gives his unit ignores cover, rerolls to hit (shooting), monster/tank hunter, hit and run, he gives drones BS5 (as opposed to the usual BS2) and all enemy units within 12" are given the gets hot rule for shooting.

The flamers are purely for over watch as to get the ignored cover and rerolls he can't shoot.

Hope that helps

Just won a local tournament with this:

+ Khan
+ 6x Bike Squads: 2x Gravs, Combi-Grav
+ 2x Thunderfire Cannons

[GK]
+ Coteaz
+ Techmarine: Conversion Beamer, 3x Servo-Skulls
+ Henchmen: 6x DCAs; 1x Banishers
+ Henchmen: 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors, 3x Acolytes
+ Stormraven Funship

 Brother Payne wrote:
Commander - PENchip, C&C node, MSSS, Iridium armour, VRT, Drone Controller, Neuro web system jammer, 2x Flamer

That's the usual buffmander build. He gives his unit ignores cover, rerolls to hit (shooting), monster/tank hunter, hit and run, he gives drones BS5 (as opposed to the usual BS2) and all enemy units within 12" are given the gets hot rule for shooting.

The flamers are purely for over watch as to get the ignored cover and rerolls he can't shoot.

Hope that helps

But how do you get them into range?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blackarmchair wrote:
Just won a local tournament with this:

+ Khan
+ 6x Bike Squads: 2x Gravs, Combi-Grav
+ 2x Thunderfire Cannons

[GK]
+ Coteaz
+ Techmarine: Conversion Beamer, 3x Servo-Skulls
+ Henchmen: 6x DCAs; 1x Banishers
+ Henchmen: 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors, 3x Acolytes
+ Stormraven Funship

What are your tatics with this? Im super new at the game sorry? Is coteaz buffing the Plasma Cannons while the DCA are shooting inside the stormraven?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blackarmchair wrote:
Just won a local tournament with this:


+ 6x Bike Squads: 2x Gravs, Combi-Grav

Why no attack bikes?

On my phone so I won't dive into tactics, but here's my DA allied with WS list. It simply presents a lot of scouting bikes that are fantastic at shooting and CC. Probably not as 'efficient' as some net WS lists, but man is it fun.

Sammael 200
• 5 Ravenwing Command Squad: Apothecary; Grenade Launcher; Ravenwing Company Banner. 245
Librarian: Space Marine Bike (1,2); Auspex; Mastery Level 2. 125
• 5 Ravenwing Command Squad: Grenade Launcher; Standard of Fortitude. 285

Troop Ravenwing Attack Squadron: 3× Additional Biker; 2× Meltagun. 181
Troop Ravenwing Attack Squadron: 3× Additional Biker; 2× Meltagun. 181

Chapter Master: The Shield Eternal; Space Marine bike; artificer armour; thunder hammer. 250

6 Space Marine Bikers: 2× grav-gun. 156

Stormtalon Gunship: Skyhammer missile launcher. 125

Thunderfire Cannon 100

1,848 points

But how do you get them into range?

Either deep strike or walk them up using cover. JSJ (move in the movement phase, shoot in the shoot phase, move again in the assault phase (using the jet packs)) means you can get into rapid fire range, shoot and then get out of range of the opponents weapons. Having hit and run also helps you get out of sticky situations.

 Paradigm wrote:
The first list looks best to me. Although allies can only take 1 HQ so one Rune Priest has to go, you can put the points into maxing the GH squad and giving them 2 plasma guns and a Drop Pod for some good mobility and something that should hopefully take some heat off the bikes.

Space Wolves can take two HQ per slot.

 Brother Payne wrote:

But how do you get them into range?

Either deep strike or walk them up using cover. JSJ (move in the movement phase, shoot in the shoot phase, move again in the assault phase (using the jet packs)) means you can get into rapid fire range, shoot and then get out of range of the opponents weapons. Having hit and run also helps you get out of sticky situations.

So what is the synergy with White Scars or the Chapter Master? Sorry for all the questions man, some just isn't clicking with me right now. I mean I see the Combo with the buffmmander and the devastator but why would you team it up with WS? What is giving them deepstrike too?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

This. Better if you can include 2 GH squad w Pods though. Then you deep strike on the flanks and Jaws all the I1 units (due to grav bombardment) gotta love it

I like it! Especially in a 2000 point list!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
On my phone so I won't dive into tactics, but here's my DA allied with WS list. It simply presents a lot of scouting bikes that are fantastic at shooting and CC. Probably not as 'efficient' as some net WS lists, but man is it fun.

Sammael 200
• 5 Ravenwing Command Squad: Apothecary; Grenade Launcher; Ravenwing Company Banner. 245
Librarian: Space Marine Bike (1,2); Auspex; Mastery Level 2. 125
• 5 Ravenwing Command Squad: Grenade Launcher; Standard of Fortitude. 285

Troop Ravenwing Attack Squadron: 3× Additional Biker; 2× Meltagun. 181
Troop Ravenwing Attack Squadron: 3× Additional Biker; 2× Meltagun. 181

Chapter Master: The Shield Eternal; Space Marine bike; artificer armour; thunder hammer. 250

6 Space Marine Bikers: 2× grav-gun. 156


Stormtalon Gunship: Skyhammer missile launcher. 125

Thunderfire Cannon 100

1,848 points

LOL so many bikes!!!

So what is the synergy with White Scars or the Chapter Master? Sorry for all the questions man, some just isn't clicking with me right now. I mean I see the Combo with the buffmmander and the devastator but why would you team it up with WS? What is giving them deepstrike too?

The synergy w Scars is that they compliment the extremely fast, close-range driven bikers w some long range AT firepower.

Buffmander works well w Devs, but he's better off w a Tau unit of his own - eg. a riptide, broadsides or some crisis suits (that's where deep strike and JSJ comes from - putting him in a crisis unit).

Of course, I forgot the SW double-HQ rule (I think I need to dust off my wolves again if I'm missing stuff that vital). In that case it's perfectly legal, although I would personally max out the GH for the double melta/plasma and a pod.

Also, it's a tad unclear, are you adding extra bikes to the standard squads in the list? If not, then I'd suggest adding 2 per squad just so you're not losing special weapons from the first wound.

Food for thought! Did some doing some data mining form torrent of fire

Primary Allied W L
Space Marines Blood Angels 4 9
Space Marines Dark Angels 14 4
Space Marines Grey Knights 4 5
Space Marines Imperial Guard 5 6
Space Marines Inquisition 17 20
Space Marines Space Marines 44 25
Space Marines Space Wolves 42 40
Space Marines Tau Empire 37 27
Dark Angels Imperial Guard 11 12
Dark Angels Sisters of Battle 2 3
Dark Angels Space Marines 15 22
Dark Angels Space Wolves 8 13
Dark Angels Tau Empire 4 4

Lets remove the "loser builds" and order by percent won.
Space Marines Dark Angels 78%
Space Marines Space Marines 64%
Space Marines Tau Empire 64%
Space Marines Space Wolves 51%
Dark Angels Tau Empire 50%

STD 11.4

So space marines dark angel perform almost an entire STD above everything else...

But what are they doing? Splashing a libby? like list 2? Or maybe they are bring more troops liek Black Knights and banner? I dont know.

Another thing to consider is that the Space marine Space marine list may not be White Scars. But if they are, anybody have any clue what they are running? I suspect Iron Fist or Red Hunters.

The tau list Im assuming is with the Buffmander, but i hate tau and thier fat face ways

Man space wolfs... You need to pick it up! But in there defense, they have by far the most games played padding out their stats.

On that note! Don't take this stats too seriously... stats only mean something if 1. They have a large enough sample size. 2. Each army has to have roughly the same amount of games played.

Just some food for thought!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:

Also, it's a tad unclear, are you adding extra bikes to the standard squads in the list? If not, then I'd suggest adding 2 per squad just so you're not losing special weapons from the first wound.

No extra! Just 5 man squads in both list! More special weapons that way!

Tau,

buffmander in Centurions w/ Chaptermaster

bikes/ Grav
bikes/ Grav
bikes/ melta
Kroot

Broadsides

Pure win you can even add an inquisitor for more fun...

Tau,

buffmander in Centurions w/ Chaptermaster

bikes/ Grav
bikes/ Grav
bikes/ melta
Kroot

Broadsides

Pure win you can even add an inquisitor for more fun...

Why do you run this with White scars instead of Iron hands?

Because this is not a full list and it depends waht you want to take more, you can run this with almost any chapter, taking one unit of bikes less and add tacticals

there are only 2 options to add, and thats Tau or Space Wolves, but leaving out Centurions and buffmanders seems like a very big disadvantage...