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Hi all
in the last 2 games (vs tau and vs tyranid) i used this list:
Razorspam Mephiston
HQ
- Mephiston

ELITE
- Furioso Fragnaught I - 1x Frag Cannon, 1x Heavy Flamer on Drop Pod I
- Furioso Fragnaught II - 1x Frag Cannon, 1x Heavy Flamer on Drop Pod II

TROOPS
- Assault squad I - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on Las/Plas Razorback
- Assault squad II - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on Las/Plas Razorback
- Assault squad III - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on Las/Plas Razorback
- Assault squad IV - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on Las/Plas Razorback
- Assault squad V - 5x ASM, 1x Flamer; 2x Hand Flamer + Meltabombs on sergeant; on Drop Pod III
- Scout Squad - 5x marine w Sniper and Camo Cloak

FAST ATTACK
- Baal Predator I - Flamestorm Cannon, HB sponsoon
- Baal Predator II - Flamestorm Cannon, HB sponsoon

However, next monday i will play vs eldar; he probably will use his waveserpent spam list
(4 waveserpent with dire avengers, fire dragons; warp spiders; wraithknight)
so maybe i will need some little change:

Fragnaughts
are not so useful 'cause he will get all troops inside waveserpent. So far, template weapon (frag cannon, heavy flamer) are not useful
i can put on a meltagun on blood fist, so fragnaught can pop waveserpent with melta, then finish the troops with frag cannon. However, it's a bit risky because if he does'nt pop the tank, frag cannon are almost useless agaist tank.
i can try to squeeze also magna grapple to increase tank popping effect

or i can remove them (and maybe the ASM on pod) and using this 460 points to bring on the field:
- 5x Assault Termies within Land Raider
- 7x DC on Land Raider (some of them with power weapon)
- 10x ASM on Land Raider
- a stormraven and a couple of lascannon dreadnaught (aka laser-turrets with legs) or something else for 230-260 points...

Baal Predator
similar than before, two flame cannon predator could be little useful if he stay inside tank
however, av13 is still good as a tank wall and i can use them to cover Mephiston, or cover razorbacks, or just outlfank whenever he put troops to hold objectives
or i can swap them for
- some lascannon predator (removing something or using points saved by removing fragnaughts)
- put a land raider here or there

what do you think?

ps we are playing campaign and i have a manufactorum so maybe i can afford 50 more points. horray!

If your going to keep the dreads(of any variety), you need the magna grapples and melta guns, so you can wreck the serpents.

If they have a wraithknight, Mephiston will be a prime target. A lucky shot could instagib him. That said, mephiston could easily stomp a wraithknight with the sanguine sword+force weapon.

Other than fire dragons and the wraithknight, serpent spam has a lot of trouble dealing with Av13-14. Take out these things, and your preds, Av13 dreads and raiders can breath easy.

Razorbacks are fairly easy picking for a serpent, but if you field enough you may have a chance to lascannon some down. Meltaciding your assault squads can work(remember to throw krak grenades every chance you get) but is risky for your scoring units.

Scouts will die to serpents, but bring snipers to help with wraithknights. Most eldar dakka won't ignore scout armor, but serpent shields ignore cover, so the cloaks could be optional.

Keep your assault flamer squad in reserve, dropping in to burn troops once they are exposed. You don't need meltabombs anywhere as eldar rear armor is Av10. If you are tangoing with the wraithknight, your dead anyways, so save the points.

A raider with assault terminators will wreck serpents, fight wraithknights and draw dakka. Basic dreads are very easy for serpents to down, but spamming armor can beat spamming armor...

I think you should not take fragnoughts. They just aren't great vs. this list. By no means would I say 4 serpents is "spam," but really the main thing you need to do is get in combat. You can blow his tanks there.

Ty all
however, today was the day and we fought this evening

Fragnaught with meltagun and magna grapple did almost nothing: magna grapple failed to hit, meltagun missed penatration (@#"£$% i rolled 3 with 2d6 -_- ). However they forced him to shoot them down, so was not totally a waste

Wraithknight was dead on second turn thanks to sniper scouts; their precision shot killed the 'knight and awarded me 1 points (as for scenario "big guns never tire"). This point was crucial in the end. Scout held ground around objective resisting an assault from eldar jetbikes, and killing them, so they awarded the "most useful unit on field" award

Mephiston was unable to hit wraithguard (thanks to scouts!) and so he charged, and totally crushed, a fire dragon unit. He was shot down by
- 10x dire avengers plus cannon platform
- 4 waveserpent (2 of them had lance anti-tank weapon)
- 3x jet-bikes + 1 farseer + warlock
however, he died on the last one shot taken, and in this turn he did nothing else than shot at Mephiston. So, 250 points to kill 5 fire dragons AND skip his shooting phase seems reasonably for me...

drop-pod'ed assault squad annihilated dire avengers with 1 flamer and 2x hand flamer; they almost died in subsequent turn, but one managed to stay alive and draw fire while another assault squad came closer to contest an objective

at the end of 5th turn game ended in a draw. Wraithknight point was crucial, as i stated before, so more yay for the scouts

problem i faced
- Dreadnaught did almost nothing; i don't blame them, i blame dice rolled and my hands; however, facing a tank army list they could be not really useful
- Baal too did nothing. They just draw fire. And this is not really a bad things, but they died too quickly... :\


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In a couple of days maybe we will fight again (we are running a campaign etc)
so i arranged a quick "more tank, less frag cannon" list:
---------
Lando-razor spam
HQ
- Mephiston
- Honour Guard - 4x meltagun, 4x PW (axe or maul), sanguinary novitiate with bolt pistol; on Drop Pod I

TROOPS
- Assault squad I - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on LR with pintle multi melta
- Assault squad II - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on LR with pintle multi melta
- Assault squad III - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on Las/Plas Razorback with pintle storm bolter
- Assault squad IV - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on Las/Plas Razorback with pintle storm bolter
- Assault squad V - 5x ASM, 1x Meltagun; on Las/Plas Razorback with pintle storm bolter
- Scout Squad - 5x marine w Sniper and Camo Cloak
---------
the LR has same function than baal predator: offer a high av big treath target to shield other troops/tank. ASM in land raider could be deployed outside the LR to hold objective, or embarked to capture new objectives; i would put flamer on them, but melta is more useful against a full waveserpent list. I'm thinking if are better LR Redeemer (to threat him with flamer cannon) and rush them on enemy line, or standard lascannon LR and keep them in my side and shoot at long range

honour guard role is to drop into enemy lines and shoot down tank with 4x melta, then die honorably; FNP and partial cover (from drop pod) can let them live until second turn. if they are very lucky...

i can remove honour guard and arrange assault squad V with flamer in a pod and bring
- a couple of evergreen meltagun magna-grapple Fragnaught
- a couple of vindicator

what do you think? it is worth trying?