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NOTE ***The list follows the double force organisation chart rule that starts at 2000 points, to respect this, I can't go a single point down***

Hi all, here is a list I recently updated to make some use of the bastions. I am not a pro player, in fact, i started my first IG army, I am more of a collector but I'd sure like to start some game sometimes. I do want to make a list with 2 bastions, I do have other more competitve lists in the work, I will have a mech list too, but this one is more "balanced" in its approach.

CCS will be on top of bastion because they can't issue orders from inside bastion (or at least, not everyone accepts it), they have meltas in case they get assaulted. they man the quad gun for anti flyers
Vendettas and melta vets are for flyers and tank hunting.
PCS in chimera are mobile pillboxes
vets inside bastion just hold their ground and wait for late game, fire at whats available to them, they may grab late objectives
Manticore for some blasting, horde army or not
The infantry blob sits at the back or in the middle and shoots (receives orders too)

Everything is doubled to avoid a definite "weak spot" to exploit.


HQ
2 x CCS (man quad gun) 3 meltas + standard 190 points

Troops
2 x 3 melta vets squad (vendetta) 200 points
2x PCS , autocannon, vox, chimera 200 points

3x infantry squad, autocannon, GL, one vox and commissar 235 points
Heavy Weapon squad, autocannon 75 points

2 x vets (inside bastion) 3 plasmas 1 lascannon 270 points

Fast Attack
2 x vendettas 260 points

Heavy Support
2x manticores 320 points
Fortifications
2 x Bastions Quad Gun 250 points

2000 points


All comments welcomed.I could go a little less heavy on the troops and or one of the bastion for some battle tank, what do you think?

Just remember that the Quadgun on the bastion is an emplaced fun, and is fired by the unit inside the bastion, not the one on the battlements.

Isn't it the opposite, I thought there was a confusing difference between emplaced gun and gun emplacement, quad guns being the latter.

You have to be in the vicinity, on the same floor I believe, otherwise, there is still little interest to place a unit on the battlement rather than inside.

I don't have a rule book in handy though, but I recall having seen this discussion somewhere else.

regardless, both vets and CCS have BS of 4, so that still wouldn't really change the efficiency.

Oh and I just remembered, I think the difference comes from the fact that a gun emplacement such as the quad gun can be used seperatly, in which case they would function as I described, considering they are seperate from the bastion in itself, it would make sense that you have to have a unit close to the quadgun, and not inside some building. For example when you use and Aegis defence line.

I do believe you need another infantry squad for it to be legal...each platoon gets one command squad and at least two infantry squads, so unless you forgot a "x2", you're gonna need another one.

 Spinner wrote:
I do believe you need another infantry squad for it to be legal...each platoon gets one command squad and at least two infantry squads, so unless you forgot a "x2", you're gonna need another one.

You are mixing it up a bit, I have only one platoon indeed (one PCS with 3 infantry squads)

However, you do not NEED to have any number of platoons in any list, you, you need to have 1 HQ and 2 troops mandatory for single org. chart, if you double it, at 2000 points and above , you need 2 hqs 4 troops mandatory, troops doesn't = plattoon.

a platoon counts as a single troop choice, so to have 4, you need 3 more troops that are not the infantry blob and PCS

So I have my platoon, 2 melta vets squad, 2 vets squad inside the bastion, for a total of 5, I already have the mandatory 4 troops choice.

The list is valid that I am sure. It is made clear in the codex. You also are allowed one fortification per force organisation chart. (so 2 with double force rule)

With a double force organisation chart, you NEED 2 HQ, 4 Troops (can be a single infantry squad, HWS, vets, PCS, or plattoons, to be considered a platoon, then you need 1 pcs and 2 infantry, they can be deployed in different position but must be deployed together (same time) and roll for reserves together.) the advantage of the plattoon is to field more manpower in a single troop choice, but its never mandatory.

You are allowed to have: 4HQ, 12 troops, 6 elites, 6 fast attack, 6 heavy support, thats also why when you run a full mech army, you still need 4 troops if you want to have lots of tanks.

I hope this clarifies it a bit, if you do not have your codex in handy.

I do have my codex handy. Actually, I think you've got the platoon rules mixed up a bit...

Each platoon counts as one troops choice. For that, you take one platoon command squad and two infantry squads, and then season to taste with extra bodies/heavy guns/cool guns/lots of extra bodies. None of those choices can be taken without the platoon framework, and the entire platoon counts as a single troops choice.

What caught my eye was this:

2x PCS , autocannon, vox, chimera 200 points

Looks like a couple of good pillbox units to hold down a firing line, but you've only got three infantry squads. Each platoon command squad needs at least two to boss around, otherwise the Commissar gets grumpy. And none of us want that...

You are correct, I didn't read the small print, I just saw that little star at the bottom stating PCS couldn't be taken seperatly on page 97.

Well in that case I could get rid of one PCS I guess, and replace it with something else, that would be 100 points to spend. Any suggestions?

could also get rid of the chimera all together if I can't field two.

My bad for the misinterpretation! Thank you for the highlight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tried something in example, got rid of the second PCS loadout (100 points) plus the HWS (75 points), with the additionnal 175 points, I got a vet squad with autocannon, chimera, and I need an extra 40 points I can get by giving them a doctrine and perhaps add a dozerblade or something to a chimera.

Double Force Organisation Chart

HQ
2 x CCS (man quad gun) 3 meltas + standard 190 points

Troops
2 x 3 melta vets squad (vendetta) 200 points

Plattoon
1x PCS , autocannon, vox, chimera 100 points
3x infantry squad, autocannon, GL, one vox and commissar 235 points

1 vet squad, autocannon, grenadier, chimera, dozerblade or heavy stubber 175 points (to reach the exact 2000 points)

2 x vets (inside bastion) 3 plasmas 1 lascannon 270 points

Fast Attack
2 x vendettas 260 points

Heavy Support
2x manticores 320 points
Fortifications
2 x Bastions Quad Gun 250 points

2000 points

Other option would be to get a Leman russ instead, basically I am just trying to have 2 somewhat armored unit so that my enemy faces a dilemma when he needs to chose between targeting my chimeras, my bastions, my blob, my vendettas or my manticores, so that either way, I will have something to throw at them.

No worries, new list looks fine!

I would consider changing the doctrine to Demolitions, but that's just because I absolutely love Demolitions and they're in a Chimera, so carapace armor won't come into play as often. And if you're running them as static fire support (thus the autocannon) might consider moving the dozer blade to a more mobile chimera, or dropping it to upgrade the autocannon to a lascannon and really take advantage of BS 4.

Or just use the heavy stubber. Turns the chimera into a decent makeshift flak tank against flying monstrous creatures. Nothing like grounding a hive tyrant right in front of your plasma squad because he got poked in the nose with a few bullets!

Thanks for the tips, I was hesitating with that doctrine too,

Will think about either going Lascannon or heavy stubber.

Thanks again.

You lacks of ignore cover, and you need more vendetta.

You also lack of low AP firepower, some you can afford to loose after they did their job.

 Grepsd wrote:
You lacks of ignore cover, and you need more vendetta.

You also lack of low AP firepower, some you can afford to loose after they did their job.

I have 6 plasma vets, 12 meltas 2 lascannons and 6 twin-linked lascannon, I doubt I lack any low AP.

My chimeras are loaded with heavy flamers to deny cover but I have to give you that I didn't focus that much, as I thought that the amount of firepower shots i would get would be more then enough to compensate for cover. Besides, I think that army can hold a line pretty well so if we go toward attrition warfare I think I can hold my ground.

If 2 vendettas really don't cut it, I'll probably just take them away from that list, as I have plans for this balanced army, but also for an airborne, armored, and mech, which will basically be my 1rst airborne division, 2nd armored, 3rd infantry-balanced (the one here) and one mech vets.

I really want to try all types of lists, but I really want this one to be my balanced approach and avoid the typical all flyers or all mech vets.

However I took those vendettas because I dont want to run intro trouble if the enemy fields lots of flyers (with 2 quad guns and 2 vendettas I thought I had this covered). So this is more of a conservative approach I don't want this list to have like 4 to 6 vendettas, if I wanted to take 1 more, I would have to cut somewhere and I think that could hurt the list, but perhaps you have a suggestion?

You have 6 plasma vets => true, that's enough plasma.
12 melta => 12" range. that's too many, you sink your points there, when you could use them for a third vendetta for example, or... let's say a collossus. AP 3, ignore cover, also known as "feth You Marines" (the necro version is the same btw)

what's the use for the melta in the ccs who're to use the quad ? A quad cant move, and you expect enemy vehicles to come at 12" from your guys ? :/

What you would be wise to take some... artillery with low AP, why ? Cause artillery (barrage) can ignore cover (most of the time), and the low AP assure you can kill what's against you... But do as you please, just know you'll have trouble dealing with things... (let's hope you wont play against opponents too tough, or... let's say... some tau or eldars)

Now that's just my personal experience against competitive players (not nice players, competitive)

Radical! Double force and stronghold assault rules? Good luck finding an opponent in the current 39K+1 meta.

Not a bad list with the exception of the dual bastion very 5th edition vanilla.

Does this list actually require stronghold assault rules? I thought it only required the double force organisation chart, which is allowed from vanilla.

Isn't this already allowed in Standard Rulebook? ( I don't have the new one yet).

I thought stronghold assault (don't have it) was to field a gakload of fortifications, either in the form of many bastions and aegis defence line OR wall of martyrs many sceneries.

As my list is to field unupgraded bastions, single one per FOC, I thought I wouldn't require stronghold assault rules?

I may be mistaken please correct me if so.

Nope. One fortification per complete army per core rulebook. Stronghold Assault allows for a fortification network that unlocks multiple bastions and other fortifications.

 Grepsd wrote:
You have 6 plasma vets => true, that's enough plasma.
12 melta => 12" range. that's too many, you sink your points there, when you could use them for a third vendetta for example, or... let's say a collossus. AP 3, ignore cover, also known as "feth You Marines" (the necro version is the same btw)

what's the use for the melta in the ccs who're to use the quad ? A quad cant move, and you expect enemy vehicles to come at 12" from your guys ? :/

What you would be wise to take some... artillery with low AP, why ? Cause artillery (barrage) can ignore cover (most of the time), and the low AP assure you can kill what's against you... But do as you please, just know you'll have trouble dealing with things... (let's hope you wont play against opponents too tough, or... let's say... some tau or eldars)

Now that's just my personal experience against competitive players (not nice players, competitive)

I actually like the colossus idea, I stacked meltas in CCS to get to that 2000 points and because I thought that unit would need something vs enemy infantry in assault, but i guess you are right, they'll prob. just try and shoot them anyway. So I can save 60 points worth of meltas from the CCS (6 meltas), then, should I downgrade the plasma vets inside bunker and/or the chimeras and vets? to get that colossus.

Also, from your experience, how fast does an enemy focus fire those units on top of a bastion?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so here is a take with an added colossus:

PDF OF THE EURAN UNION-3RD INFANTRY DIVISION (EURAN’S GUARD)
Official Motto: Discipline, Honor and Duty
Unofficial Motto: The coward dies to commissar fire, the bold to enemy fire, discipline makes us win
Battle Doctrine: PDF holds the line with ground troops and then push hard where the enemy’s weak with its vanguard
Commanders: High General Henrich Von Castellaer and Colonel Lionel Mailhot

Double force organisation chart
HQ/Planetary Defence Force Euran
2 x CCS (man quad gun) standards 130 points

TROOPS
Rear Guard Infantry Platoon
1x PCS , autocannon, vox, 45 points
3x infantry squad, autocannon, GL, one vox and commissar 235 points

Planetary Defence Force Euran
2 x vets (inside bastion) 3 plasmas 1 lascannon 270 points

Vanguard Platoon
2 x 3 melta vets squad (vendetta) 200 points
1x Veterans, autocannon, chimera, HF 140 points

FAST ATTACK
Vanguard
2 x vendettas 260 points

HEAVY SUPPORT
Rear Guard Artillery
2x manticores,HF, 320 points
1 x colossus, HF 140 points

FORTIFICATIONS
PDF
2 x Bastions Quad Gun 250 points

TOTAL 1990 points (need a 10 points upgrade)

2-6 per turn (up to 8) Str. 10 AP 4 ordnance
Str. 6 AP3 Ignore cover blast
6 Twin-Linked Str. 9 AP 2
2 Str. 9 AP 2
6 Str. 8 AP 1 Assault
6 Str. 7 AP 2 Rapid Fire
4 Twin-liked Str. 7 AP 4 with interceptor
5 Str. 7 AP 4
1 multilaser 2 str. 6 ap 6
4 heavy flamers 4 str 5 AP 4 templates
1 heavy stubber 1 str. 4 AP 6
21 BS 3Lasguns str. 3
36 BS 4 lasguns str. 3
3 GL

Body Counts: 10 + 31 + 20+20+5+10 = 96 infantry men, 3 artillery units, 2 airborne units, 2 fortifications, 1 tank unit
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/579008.page 

Usually, they would collapse the building. (it's not that tough as we can think) OR ignore what's inside, by playing with max range.