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this list is an i dea i have had to beat my friends white scar list.

H.Q.
CCS (232)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 2 x Sniper Rifle, Medic, Vox-Caster, Krak
- Master of Ordinance, Officer of the Fleet, Astropath, 2 Bodyguards

TROOPS
Infantry Platoon (222)
Platoon CS (102)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 2x Plasmagun, Medic, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Squad (60)
- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Squad (60)
- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Platoon (222)
Platoon CS (102)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 2x Grenade launcher, Medic, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Squad (60)
- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Squad (60)
- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Platoon (222)
Platoon CS (102)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 2x Grenade launcher, Medic, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Squad (60)
- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster, Krak

Infantry Squad (60)
- Grenade Launcher, Vox-Caster, Krak

FAST ATTACK
Valkyrie Squadron (330)
3 x Valkyrie
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's

Valkyrie Squadron (330)
3 x Valkyrie
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's

Valkyrie Squadron (330)
3 x Valkyrie
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Squadron (235)
1 Exterminator
- Extra Armour, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Pask

FORTIFICATIONS
Imperial Bunker (145)
- Quad-Gun, Void Shield, 3 Sections of Tangle Wire.

TOTAL
2248

the idea is for the CCS to sit in the bunker with Pask in support till the air-cav arrive and just plaster my mates bikes. so the question is do you think this is a good list. also i'm wondering if i should swap pask's russ for multiple rocket pods on the Valkyrie's? the only thing i realy can;t change is special weapons i only have two plasma gun equipped models.

effective list? yes

good, well this kind of list tends to end friendships and make people rage quit the game.

My big problem with a Air Cav list like yours is that 9 Flyer bases make for a really large footprint on a table. I'm running 7 in my Air Cav list and I still run into a problem with positioning. Other than that, Yoy might want to look into a Comms Relay on your Bunker. At that point you get to reroll your 2+ reserve rolls. You might also try squeezing out a couple of points and make some of the Valkyries into Vendettas. 9 twin linked Lascannon shots is really hard to argue with.

Looks like a fun list, but don't you lack in heavy weapons?

You have 18 hellstrike missiles, so 18 single shot strenght 8 AP 3, Vendettas would get you strenght 9 AP 2, 3 twin-linked lascannon per model, and infinite ammo.

The list definetely has the advantage of firepower and manpower in numbers, but still looks like it could use some antitank units (Of course it depends on your meta).

You wrote the list is specifically to beat your white scar friend, I guess then it works, but for a more competitive approach I would suggest a few vendettas (maybe 3), gear down the infantry a bit, get some vets with meltas/plasmas.

I am biased though, I prefer all-comers list, custom tayloring an army feels like cheating to me, it may give an unfair advantage. That's just my view however, go for it.

yeah as i said this list was to get my freind to stop saying his white scars are unbeatable. and wanted to see if there was any advice about improving it. i prefer my armoured company. i did write another version with vets and vendetta's. thanks for the advice though. well see how it does as he is now trying to cram aa in to his list having seen my one.


as for heavy weapons i was considering adding some multiple rocket pods and changing one squadron to vendetta's. the valkyrie's aren;t built yet so have time to mess with them.

Problem with Hellstrike is they're Ordnance.
So as soon as you fire one, you're snap shooting everything else. So you can't even fire the other.
They really are a terrible terrible weapon.

 brochtree wrote:
yeah as i said this list was to get my freind to stop saying his white scars are unbeatable. and wanted to see if there was any advice about improving it. i prefer my armoured company. i did write another version with vets and vendetta's. thanks for the advice though. well see how it does as he is now trying to cram aa in to his list having seen my one.


as for heavy weapons i was considering adding some multiple rocket pods and changing one squadron to vendetta's. the valkyrie's aren;t built yet so have time to mess with them.

If I may suggest you this: you don't have to permanently glue your weapons, a lot of people use some sort of gum or removable adhesive so they can swap between loadouts. that way you could convert from valkyrie to vendetta back and fort according to your requirement.

Thats especially useful when you start going air cav. heavy. As if you change your mind between vendettas and valkyries, you don't want to have to buy new models each time.


You could also post your friend's white scars list to see what we can suggest you.

From what I remember white scars are those fully loaded on bikes right? Is he assault heavy with lots of melee units? does he field tanks, terminators, etc.

Honestly, Like grendel said, I believe for the points valkyries aren't that great compared to vendettas. And a lot of lascannon would rape their ass, even if you can field a little less.

About your troops, if you go the vendetta's route, you have tanks and flyers covered, so all you need is anti-infantry, since you want a mobile and not a static force, you can load up on plasma and meltas with vet squads. If you go standard infantry squad, maybe I am wrong, but I do feel infantry squad behave better in static blobs gunline with some autocannon for damage. GL are ok when acompanied by an autocannon but will strenght 3 AP6 really do the trick for you vs marines?

Personally, air cav, I would go with vendettas, half vets with plasma, other half vets with meltas. Now this is vs heavy infantry enemies, monstrous creature and the like, however, you might want some flamers, autocannons and GL if you fight orks footslogging, gaunts nids, etc.

However go with whichever you feel more confortable with, but I think you need more weapons tailored to those marines saves.

so having read the advice you guys have given hear is my new list.

H.Q.
CCS (167)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Krak
- 2 x Sniper Rifle, Medic, Vox-Caster, Master of Ordinance, Astropath

TROOPS
Vet Squad x 2 (117) (117)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 3 x Meltagun, Vox-Caster

Vet Squad x 2 (117) (117)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 2 x Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Vox-Caster

Vet Squad x 2 (132) (132)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 3 x Plasmaguns, Vox-Caster

FAST ATTACK
Valkyrie Squadron (280)
2 x Valkyrie
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's, Multiple Rocket Pod

Vendetta Squadron x2 (280)
2 x Vendetta
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hydra Flakk Tank (95)
- Camo Net

Leman Rus Exterminator (180)
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's, Extra Armour

FORTIFICATIONS
Imperial Bunker
- Comm's Relay, Void Shield, 3 Sections Tanglewire, 2 Sections Barricade.

TOTAL
2154

the idea is the flamer vets take the Valkyries, the melta/plas go vendetta. while the russ, hydra and bunker with the CCS in start on the table. the hydra is in case of flyers. the russ add's some firepower to my initial defense point.

now as i am starting to like this as my core list i have tried to give it flex ability with the mix of weapons. i have 96 points left and not sure what to add, any ideas? considering either a psyker or creed.

as for my friends list he spam's bikes with grav-gunsand use's the hit and run rule to death. but is now trying to add some AA since I've taken to Air-Cav.

That looks like a pretty nice list, one other comment thought:you

You give lots of upgrades to your squads and vehicles, something I usually try to avoid for some reasons:

Powerfists: I understand they look like the gak vs marines assault, however, your men will be shot at too. you will take casulties as guards, so better not invest to much points in them, and rather take some more! Also, while they are in vendettas, those points serves nothing.

Vox casters: useful for orders, yes, but you only have 1 company command squad, it can only give 2 orders per turn, you have 6 squads. Vox casters are prob. more useful to plattoons with additional PCS.

heavy bolter sponsons, I believe they can only snap fire? you want your vets to fire those twin-linked lascannons. I personnally avoid those extras.

Supergearing your command squad will just give your enemy more reason to get rid of them early. In fact, in a full air cav. I would care less about the CCS all together and just fieild it plain because I have to take an HQ choice.

On turn one, your russ will be focused to death, so you will prob lose it before it can do anything, to help with that, you could try and squeeze another tank if you save points elsewhere.

About your fortifications, I have no experience with them and I don't know how much it helps you, but I would rather have a little more ground forces to have target saturation, so they can't shut you down early.

Imagine you get rid of powerfists, snipers,voxes, sponsons on flyers, and maybe, if required, part of your fortifications, you could field additional tanks to give them more trouble early.

however I have no experience with Air Cav, I use balanced forces personally, at 2000 points, I think I could give your friend some trouble with my list.

I am sure your vets will give him some headaches on turn 2 and over, just make sure you hold up a little on turn one.

Last word: this only represents my own opinion and you may like to use powerfists and have your squad geared up, its alright, I just find this approach more risky mathematically speaking, here's why:

Assuming XXXX = YYYYYY = total fire power = 6 (for our own needs)

X= lesser numbered more geared squads
Y= more number lesser geared squads

It means X = 1.5 Y fire power, (Y = 1)

When you lose X unit, you lose 1.5 firepower
When you lose Y unit, you only lose 1 firepower

Total firepower is the same, but the cost of losing a unit is higher tactically speaking. This model is approximative and doesn't depict the exact reality but you get the point. that's why I avoid upgrades other than awesome weapons such as meltas and plasmas.

But as they say, no plan survives first contact with the enemy, the best way to test your army list is to play your army list, you could try your own list, and then try slight alterations until you find that sweet spot.

Theorycrafting has its flaws.

Have fun with your friend! Keep me updated how your next game works out.

dropping the Vox-Casters i can understand, i rather like having a power weapon as by modeling them all as power axes i get a good cc attack if i need it. and your right the heavy bolters on the Valkyrie's and vendetta's are not useful. that's 200 points so another exterminator. so hear is the basic redo.

H.Q.
CCS (167)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Krak
- 3 x Sniper Rifle, Medic, Master of Ordinance, Astropath

TROOPS
Vet Squad x 2 (112) (112)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 3 x Meltagun, Vox-Caster

Vet Squad x 2 (112) (112)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 2 x Flamer, Heavy Flamer

Vet Squad x 2 (127) (127)
- Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol
- 3 x Plasmaguns

FAST ATTACK
Valkyrie Squadron (260)
2 x Valkyrie
- Multiple Rocket Pod

Vendetta Squadron x2 (260)
2 x Vendetta

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hydra Flakk Tank (95)
- Camo Net

Leman Rus Exterminator (180)
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's, Extra Armour

Leman Rus Exterminator (180)
- Heavy Bolter Sponson's, Extra Armour

FORTIFICATIONS
Imperial Bunker
- Comm's Relay, Void Shield, 3 Sections Tanglewire, 2 Sections Barricade.

TOTAL
2244

For my Air Cav list at 1850 (I'm not sure what I'd add at 2250) I use a Imperial Strongpoint from the Stronghold Assault. 1 Bastion w/ Comms Relay, 2 Void Shields; 1 Aegis Defense Line, 1 Skyshield Landing Pad w/ Ready for Take Off. I start with my Company Command Squad in the Bastion with an astropath and officer of the fleet for the 2+ re rollable reserves, and a valkyrie with a load of veterans on the Skyshield. Around here buildings get cover the same as a vehicle, so the Aegis is set up to give cover to the Bastion and Skyshield, and the Skyshield gives the Valkyrie a cover save until it starts zooming turn 2. That's it, the rest starts in reserve and rides in with the 2 squadrons of 3 vendettas.

^ that can help you tons indeed, ADL seems almost mandatory, though honestly I use double FOC and 2 bastions instead

However, in his situation, I assume vets will want to get the fight to the enemy, an ADL is great when you hold your ground, but fortifications must be deployed before everything else, and his vets will already ride in flyers that will come on turn two, does he actually have a use for an ADL ?

otherwise I like the build with two tanks, now, they are in a serious dilemma. you have 6 scoring units, all units on table first turn will give them trouble if they don,' shut them down, which they'll have trouble too, and by turn 2, they are in for a lot of trouble.

On an other note, 2250, thats weird...:p I'm used to 500, 1000, 1500, 2000 XD.Well as long as you agree to the points

Love the new list.

Not sure where 2250 comes from its just are normal value. As for using a bastion I don't have one. And the bunkers cheaper so I can tool it up better and still have it not take points from more important things.

I never realised my list was such a bummer, as you know I just like crazy mongol bikers,
my list
Kor'sorro,
Libby on bike,
2 command squads,
1=appoc, champ, standard, 3vets with SS, Powerlance and GG, 2nd squad same without standard or champ.
6 bike squads Sgt, 4 bikers,(2gg), MMattack bike,
3 speeders, 2MM/HB, 1HB/AC,

as I said I wont play a 9 flyer list with this army (ok I'll give you a match Broch, but I don't think it would be much fun),
but I will play you with this list....

Kor'sorro
Aegis with quad gun
6 scout squads in Storms, each 4sniper rifles and a ML with flack
3 Sternguard squads with 2 ML with Flack in TLAC razors
3 Speeder squads, 2 with 2xMM speeders, 1 with 1speeder with 2xHB

I think it will still be fast and outflanking or scouting so still gives me the crazy in your face action I like but has a chance to bring down yr flyers, Quad gun,12 ML with flack, 3 TLAC,12 HB, if I deploy sensibly I should be able to get mostly side armour on yr flyers, I will need to protect my MMspeeders to deal with yr tanks, (they usually do OK ! )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 2250pts originally came from a TF campaign force we were taking to WHW.
We have kept using it as it gives big but manageable fechts.
I suppose we should rationalise to 2000 or 2500.
Up to you.