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OK, first off I have to say I haven't played since late 3rd edition but my Brother-in-law wants me to start back up.
I'm currently looking at using this army and would like some suggestions before I start tearing my termie's apart and re-building them.



Belial.......... L-Claws, Iron Halo
Dw Champ.. Halberd of Caliban
Dw Squad... TH/SS X2, L-Claws, Asscan/PF, Dw Co Banner

Sarge......... L-Claws
Troop......... TH/SS X2, L-Claws, SB/PF, Asscan/PF

Sarge......... L-Claws
Troop......... TH/SS X2, L-Claws, SB/PF, Asscan/PF

Sarge......... L-Claws
Troop......... TH/SS X4, Cyclone

Sarge......... L-Claws
Troop......... TH/SS X4, Cyclone

Sarge......... TH/SS
Troop......... TH/SS X5, Cyclone

Any suggestions?

Centurion.

Unfortunately, a poorly worded FAQ (unknown whether it was intentional or accidental) limits DW sargeants to SB/PS.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180051a_Dark_Angels_v1.1A_APRIL13.pdf

Page 99 – Deathwing Terminator Squad, Options
Change the second bullet point to:
“• Any model can replace his storm bolter and power fist with:
- a pair of lightning claws .....................................free
- a thunder hammer and storm shield .............5 pts

Also, not sure on the LC's on Belial, I prefer Fleshbane and a gun to +1A and Shred, but YMMV.

Belial's Heavefall sword is superior to Lightning Claw Belial. You're more likely to wound on a 2+ than you are with rerollable wounds outside of T3 models (it's clearly superior if you attack anything T5 or greater), and it's master crafted which mitigates being short an attack somewhat. Plus, you don't have to give up a shooting attack with him which considering he precisions on 5+, is a good thing.

You seem to know about the CML being great as you can still give the guy with it the melee weapon swaps. Considering how punchy your command squad is going to be comparitively to the rest of your guys as they'll have the banner, I think I'd swap the Assault Cannon guy in it with a CML guy with TH/SS from another squad.

If you've got that many guys, I'd think about putting Belial in a 10-man blob rather than splitting every unit down to 5 guys. His unerring deep strike is simply too great a strategic asset to pass up, and the more guys who make sure they land where you need them to, the better.

I'd also try to diversify your heavy weapons loadout. Notably, you're lacking Heavy Flamers. Heavy Flamers are so good on Deathwing terminators. Twin-linked the turn they deep strike is excellent, and if you throw them on the two HW guys in Belial's squad, you can potentially nuke two different troops. Denying the enemy's scoring opportunities ASAP is really important in a Deathwing army because you simply lack the numbers to deal with MSU. Anything not MEQ or better and not in a transport will instantly cry out and be silenced, Alderaan style.

Another issue, and one that is most damning, is you're foot slogging 3 of those units. You've got 7 units deploying (Belial, Command Squad, 5 terminator squads) which means you can only have 4 things in reserves. Latest FAQ for Dark Angels states that yes, Deathwing Assault units count toward your reserve limits.

Possible solutions: Drop two or three whole squads. Take a Land Raider as a Heavy Support, and take Deathwing Knights deployed inside it. Grab another cheap unit (Ravenwing Attack Squad is a good one as you can utilize the teleport homers if you get first turn) just to sit on the table so you can deploy the maximum amount of things as you can into reserves.

I have Belial with Lightning claws because the commander I am using to represent him has a pair of lightning claws. I was hoping to salvage as much of the original force as possible.

When I built the original army in 3rd or 4th, I forget, you could take 2 heavy weapons per squad so I have a LOT of converted assault cannons that I now can't use.

As far as putting Belial in a 10 man squad, could I still keep the command squad just put Belial in a different unit?

Centurion.

BTW, thanks for the link.

Ok, something to know since 3rd:
Shooting has, point for point, become more powerful. Marching terminators across the board has never been more difficult.
Casualties are now removed from the front of squads
Charge ranges are random, and the enemy gets to shoot you when you charge.
Power weapons now have an AP vaule. Lightning claws are only AP3, so nowhere near as good as they once were.
Up to half of your units may come in reserves (rounded up)

Personally, ignore the FAQ. Many tournaments do, and you are already taking a handicap by using DW.

Even then though, I wouldn't use lightning claws.

Personally I don't like the CML on assault squads. Te reason is simple, range. Your troops ideally want to be in cc, so should be running. The CML wants to be firing all the time, so you shouldn't be running.
Instead I usually take 1 terminator with a HF/CF loadout. This gives the capability of taking on hordes and heavy armour. Also they both work at short range, so you do not lose anything by running if you aren't going to charge.

For belial, I'd recommend the hammer and shield, although the sword can be better vs some targets. LCs are the worst.

Certainly look into landraiders for transport. I feel LRCs are the best.

I'm not a big fan of the DW command squad. It takes away another scoring unit, and hampers your deployment. Do you really need those extra attacks? The FNP banner might be a better investment if you are footslogging. Even the, I'd say a knights squad would be better if you want a non scoring unit.

And sure, Belial does not have to stay with the command squad.

I will look at reworking the list tomorrow after I wake up.

Thanks for all the advice.

Centurion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, Next go around for your perusal.

Belial....... TH/SS

Sergeant. TH/SS
Squad...... TH/SS X7, Hv-flamer/PF X2

Sergeant. TH/SS
Squad...... TH/SS X4, Asscan/PF

Sergeant. TH/SS
Squad...... TH/SS X5, Asscan/PF

Sergeant. SB/PS
Squad...... SB/PF X4, Cyclone

Sergeant. SB/PS
Squad...... SB/PF X4, Cyclone

The TH/SS Squads will move around trying to smack whatever they can catch and the SB/Cyclone squads will try to hold objectives and apply cover fire. Is this a but better over all?

Centurion.

I have some Sanguinary Guard wings from the jet packs they have. I've been thinking about using those as stand in's for the DeathWing's Storm Shields. Do you think those will look good?

Centurion.

Regarding that idea, here are some images from google:

Hmmm, I never thought about shortening the wings. basically what I am working on will be closest to the bottom pic. I will try to get pics later today but I have to head out for a bit right now.

Thanks BTW.

Centurion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn, my tablet cam simply can't take a good enough picture to show enough detail to be worth posting.

Centurion.