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Hey dakkans,

My group are planning a big warhammer game in the near future - around 12-15,000pts per side in a storm of chaos style game. Everyone will be there, Archaon, Karl Franz, Teclis, Belakor, Thorgrim, Khazrak, Markus Wolfheart, maybe even Malekith.

We were wondering if anyone has some experience with games of this scale and what they did with magic?
Even the storm of Magic 4D6 with the two highest as dispel probably won't be enough.

Any help would be great!

Thanks

Think about it this way, fantasy is balanced at about 2500pts. Therefore it's at 2500pts where the Rulebook's 2D6 system works best, so, if you do 2D6 power dice for every 2500 points, you should be alright. Make sure to round it to an even number, so the sum of the highest half the dice works. That said, you have to be careful about that last bit, since the higher dice are more likely to be higher (so maybe half minus one).

This always seems to work for me.

We did a 12K vs 12K game recently (DoC vs HElves), we played it with 4D6 (two separate for RoC, two highest for dispell)
when you add the channels available, it was fine, even if not crazy high
If we had followed a regular scaling for the number of dice, rolling with 8-9D6 would have been crazy, magic already had a large impact, especially the AE spells with 12" bubbles (also we only had one General and BSB per side, that made the battle lines less "F*** you I'm stubborn 10 with RR")

4D6 means it might be a bit tight, but perhaps that's for the best. That's about 21 dice on average, then with channels that will be boosted. Yeah I reckon I'm happy with that.

As far as generals go, we're going to have different rules for different armies.

Good:
- Empire: can use any good general's Ld
- Dwarfs: can use dwarf general's Ld and Karl Franz
- High Elves: can use elf general's Ld and Karl Franz

Chaos:
- Armies can only use their own general's Ld.
- Beasts can also use Archaon's.

Hopefully this will show the fractious nature of the chaos horde, as well as elves/dwarfs to a degree, while the humans will take heart from anyone still fighting

Triple_double_U wrote:
4D6 means it might be a bit tight, but perhaps that's for the best. That's about 21 dice on average, then with channels that will be boosted. Yeah I reckon I'm happy with that.

As far as generals go, we're going to have different rules for different armies.

Good:
- Empire: can use any good general's Ld
- Dwarfs: can use dwarf general's Ld and Karl Franz
- High Elves: can use elf general's Ld and Karl Franz

Chaos:
- Armies can only use their own general's Ld.
- Beasts can also use Archaon's.

Hopefully this will show the fractious nature of the chaos horde, as well as elves/dwarfs to a degree, while the humans will take heart from anyone still fighting

Shouldn't the inverse be true aswell then? While Chaos forces may not care too much that an allied leader dies, Empire may suffer more from seeing a great leader that they respected die, even if it was an elf.

 Purifier wrote:

Triple_double_U wrote:
4D6 means it might be a bit tight, but perhaps that's for the best. That's about 21 dice on average, then with channels that will be boosted. Yeah I reckon I'm happy with that.

As far as generals go, we're going to have different rules for different armies.

Good:
- Empire: can use any good general's Ld
- Dwarfs: can use dwarf general's Ld and Karl Franz
- High Elves: can use elf general's Ld and Karl Franz

Chaos:
- Armies can only use their own general's Ld.
- Beasts can also use Archaon's.

Hopefully this will show the fractious nature of the chaos horde, as well as elves/dwarfs to a degree, while the humans will take heart from anyone still fighting

Shouldn't the inverse be true aswell then? While Chaos forces may not care too much that an allied leader dies, Empire may suffer more from seeing a great leader that they respected die, even if it was an elf.

Yeah, there will probably be rules regarding panic tests on dead generals.

But we're also floating around the idea of a Ld bonus if Archaon or Karl Franz dies. but not sure which way to do it.
Bonus Ld to Chaos if Karl Franz dies? or negative to empire?
Bonus Ld to Empire if Arhcaon dies? or negative to Chaos?

Triple_double_U wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Triple_double_U wrote:
4D6 means it might be a bit tight, but perhaps that's for the best. That's about 21 dice on average, then with channels that will be boosted. Yeah I reckon I'm happy with that.

As far as generals go, we're going to have different rules for different armies.

Good:
- Empire: can use any good general's Ld
- Dwarfs: can use dwarf general's Ld and Karl Franz
- High Elves: can use elf general's Ld and Karl Franz

Chaos:
- Armies can only use their own general's Ld.
- Beasts can also use Archaon's.

Hopefully this will show the fractious nature of the chaos horde, as well as elves/dwarfs to a degree, while the humans will take heart from anyone still fighting

Shouldn't the inverse be true aswell then? While Chaos forces may not care too much that an allied leader dies, Empire may suffer more from seeing a great leader that they respected die, even if it was an elf.

Yeah, there will probably be rules regarding panic tests on dead generals.

But we're also floating around the idea of a Ld bonus if Archaon or Karl Franz dies. but not sure which way to do it.
Bonus Ld to Chaos if Karl Franz dies? or negative to empire?
Bonus Ld to Empire if Arhcaon dies? or negative to Chaos?

Karl Franz is a living legend. If he died, as a soldier I would lose hope. On the other hand, the enemy would see their victory in it, and maybe press harder. I still think that's adequately showed by a loss of ld with the empire, though.

You could make a whole cinematic objective of it. If Karl Franz dies, the unit that killed him can't act in its next turn as it is raising his head on a pike, flaunting it and screaming in victory. The rest of the army either gets one more attack (if they are already in combat) or an extra D6 to their charge range (if they are not) to press the advantage.

I prefer the Karl Franz of old ...

The spoiler is from the "Imperial Campaign" of the old WHFRP (4 books)



Much less black and white