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HI Dakka

Want to get a response from the greater comunity on this one i've been wracking my brains over - any guidance would be appreciated.

So basically i'm running Grey knights as an Allied detachment for my Space Wolves Primary:


1. I have an inquisitor as HQ for my grey knights who are allies of convenience who I plan to give him the Psychic Communion power.

2. Allies of convenience cannot buff / damage each other with psychic powers unless caught in area of effect / scatter etc.

3. BRB FAQ says reserve modifiers do not affect your allied units.

However:

Point #2 – Only states that you cannot use reserve roll buffs on Allies, my space wolves are a Primary detachment not allies.
Point #3 – Psychic Communion is a blessing used at the start of my movement phase before reserve rolls are made which, if successful can modify any reserve roll result by +/- 1 which Is choosen after each dice roll is made.

So from what I take from this as RAW – if the allied detachment is buffing the primary detachments reserve rolls its ok?
And the usual Codex overrides rulebook argument – RAW, psychic communion allows me to modify litterally any reserve roll so I can in fact modify all reserve rolls made in that game turn by +/- 1 for my space wolves (Despite being allies of convenience) AND modify my opponents reserve rolls until my next turn?

is this Correct? Is there any rule / FAQ i'm missing?

As said before any help / guidance will be appreciated.

Thanks

BRB FAQ says reserve modifiers do not affect your allied units.


you said it yourself. Primary or secondary detachment doesnt matter here.

The Space Wolves and Grey Knights are allied to each other. One is a primary detachment one is an allied detachment.

The Psychic Communion power does not help Space Wolves get onto the board from reserve.

The confusion, and to be honest 100% justified confusion, stems from GW using the term 'allied detachment' to describe a detachment taken in addition to a primary detachment with different FOC requirements/slots OR as any detachment that is part of an alliance in your army (be in the primary, or non-primary detachment).

The FAQ really says that you can't use the buffs to improve the reserve rolls of a 'different' detachment.

That any in the description seems like it would work. Wouldn't it work on Death Marks on the opposing team using Ethereal Interception? It says it is modifying any reserve roll.

Your adding a +/- to ANY reserve roll it says it isn't specifically buffing an ally detachment. It is affecting a whole phase. So it wouldn't work on an ally but it would work on Enemy Death Marks?

 Mythra wrote:
That any in the description seems like it would work. Wouldn't it work on Death Marks on the opposing team using Ethereal Interception? It says it is modifying any reserve roll.

Your adding a +/- to ANY reserve roll it says it isn't specifically buffing an ally detachment. It is affecting a whole phase. So it wouldn't work on an ally but it would work on Enemy Death Marks?

When do you cast powers? Can you cast Psychic Communion on your opponents turn?

 DJGietzen wrote:
The confusion, and to be honest 100% justified confusion, stems from GW using the term 'allied detachment' to describe a detachment taken in addition to a primary detachment with different FOC requirements/slots OR as any detachment that is part of an alliance in your army (be in the primary, or non-primary detachment).

The FAQ really says that you can't use the buffs to improve the reserve rolls of a 'different' detachment.

No the FAQ Really says:
Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve Rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment? (P124)
A: No

Stating the obvious but a Primary Detatchment is not a Allied detachment as its a Primary Detachment - and to state the even more obvious - An Allied detachment is an Allied detachment

i understand where you're coming from with regard to the RAI, but RAW there is nothing that i can find or reference that explicitly says Allied detachments cannot modify a primary detachments reserve roll - only the above which states the opposite its true.

The Power is cast at the begining of the friendly movement phase before reserve rolls are made. - It is a blessing so (from what i recall - citation needed from someone with the BRB nearby) should be in effect until your next turn... However playing devils advocate does the BRB state blessings only affect friendly models? I have an inkling theres a sentence in there about they might occasionally affect enemy units too?

Yetii,
Many rules out there which use the terminology 'allied detachment' while discussing the interaction between two detachments, and this is the core of the problem because it has made it very difficult to know exactly what the writers intend. The conclusion that all uses of the terminology "allied detachment" mean that particular detachment, and not interaction between two detachments, lead to some very unusual situations. The primary break being that they effectively make one of the two detachments completely immune to the negatives being discussed in the Allied section of the book. This leads to one of the strangest situations I have seen put forth under that logic: A detachment being able to cast psychic powers on their allies, but not themselves!

Also, Frequently Asked Questions have clarified that you can cast Powers prior to Reserves as both are occurring at the same time and in those situations the player decides the order in which they are resolved:

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Let me extend this further...

Primary, sisters; allied, IG.

I take an Inquisitorial Detachment and I roll up Scriers Gaze on Coteau (who is also my warlord) , which does no directly modify (+1,-1) my reserve rolls.

May I use this power on my allied detachments units in reserve (say a vendetta)?

I bet their intent is that it doesn't work. They just writing things in such a manner that you can always be left guessing. The any reserve that wording almost seems like they intended it to work on enemies or allies.

Yetii, the question says allied, not Allied.
If you took Sisters as a Primary, and added some IG, the IG are an Allied Detachment, however, the Sisters are an allied detachment to the IG.