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I've been a long time eldar player but have never really fielded a seer council on jetbikes. I'm prepping for a 1500 point tourney next month and am thinking about finally giving it a try. What are some of the tactics to make the unit effective? Can anyone point me in the direction of the right way to run the council?

The point of them is that there is no strategy. Pray you get at least two guys who can buff your saving throws with whatever Rune of Battle does that, hope your Farseer rolls Fortune. 2++, rerollable. Ram them into things and watch the fleshbane/armorbane inflict twenty-five thousand trillion wounds.

Note, you have no armor penetration with the squad at all, so they tend to stall against TEQ. That's why a lot of people ally in Dark Eldar to take Baron for Hit and Run. I can't remember off hand, but I think one of the Eldar relics other than the Mantle of the Laughing God also conferred hit and run. Maybe it was just rerollable cover saves and a 48" run (which does nothing on a jetbike).

And remember every last bike has a twin-linked shuriken catapult so they are as capable as any windrider guardian squad at short range dakka.

The Council still does fine against TEQ, they have rending Shuriken on the way in (which averages around 3 dead against T4 2+/5++), then 30 attacks = 20 hits = 3 dead Terminators, and that's without any buffs/debuffs (Prescience and Misfortune being the best two in this case) and ignores the characters. You also should have the Shard of Anaris on one of the Seers, as you don't want a unit that expensive to not be Fearless, which gives you a guy with Rending which helps against 2+ saves as well. If you have the points you can also take the Soulshrive (spelling?) from the Iyanden book, which is just base AP2.

You can't take the unit without the Baron, its a horrifically overcosted unit without him. They can grind anything down and win combats against basically anything, but their strength is being whereever they need to when they are needed - Hit and Run, Stealth and Grenades is what elevates them above Screamer Councils as the best Deathstar in 40k.

There are very few ways to get Hit and Run for the unit, the Eldar wargear item you are thinking of is the Falcon's Wing, which lets you run 48" but doesn't give you Hit and Run. The only other ways to get it are to ally in a Tau Commander with Vectored Retro Thrusters (which slows the unit down, but does give you a much better ally) or to run Barraroth (sp?) or the Shadow Spectres Phoenix Lord, but they are twice the price of the Baron with half the buffs.

The Baron's Stealth ability is very important. Being able to improve your cover save from 3+ to 2+ is very important -- especially if you didn't get Fortune.

Incidentally, the Shrouded power from Runes of Battle is a primaris. So no worrying about that.

Don't forget against teq your looking for protector/jinx or 2 anyways. So you could always just drop the terminator saves by 1 to a 3+ anyways potentially.

Powerguy wrote:
The Council still does fine against TEQ, they have rending Shuriken on the way in (which averages around 3 dead against T4 2+/5++), then 30 attacks = 20 hits = 3 dead Terminators, and that's without any buffs/debuffs (Prescience and Misfortune being the best two in this case) and ignores the characters. You also should have the Shard of Anaris on one of the Seers, as you don't want a unit that expensive to not be Fearless, which gives you a guy with Rending which helps against 2+ saves as well. If you have the points you can also take the Soulshrive (spelling?) from the Iyanden book, which is just base AP2.

You can't take the unit without the Baron, its a horrifically overcosted unit without him. They can grind anything down and win combats against basically anything, but their strength is being whereever they need to when they are needed - Hit and Run, Stealth and Grenades is what elevates them above Screamer Councils as the best Deathstar in 40k.

There are very few ways to get Hit and Run for the unit, the Eldar wargear item you are thinking of is the Falcon's Wing, which lets you run 48" but doesn't give you Hit and Run. The only other ways to get it are to ally in a Tau Commander with Vectored Retro Thrusters (which slows the unit down, but does give you a much better ally) or to run Barraroth (sp?) or the Shadow Spectres Phoenix Lord, but they are twice the price of the Baron with half the buffs.

Relying on rolling 6s to do anything is a good way to lose a game. Just saying.

Also, I specifically meant in melee, which is where a lot of the strength of the unit lies (imo). But, you're right, you still have a prayer's chance in hell of ignoring the 2+ armor.

? Where did I say you are relying on rolling 6's? The Council puts out enough wounds to do reasonable damage to anything with a 2+ save (they don't care if its a Terminator or a Riptide) in combat even without factoring in the characters. Since volume of wounds has always been how you kill Terminators I fail to see how this is a problem. The Shard is a bonus on top of that which you are always going to have since you need the Fearless buff, and most of your kills from shooting are going to be from failed normal saves anyway.

He thought you were relying on the rending of the shurikens to kill TEQ, not realizing you were making a volume of wounds argument.

Tactics with the Seercouncil are simple:
1) Stop caring about fun or fairness.
2) Build glitched list. Screamerstar+hounds, Baron+Council, etc
3) Run your invincible squad into anyone trying to play any other army
4) profit.

GW can make gakky rules, but if people never took that first step, it would never be a problem. GW isn't ruining the game, douche crackers who run dog house like this are. Let's quit passing the buck.

cod3x wrote:
He thought you were relying on the rending of the shurikens to kill TEQ, not realizing you were making a volume of wounds argument.

Tactics with the Seercouncil are simple:
1) Stop caring about fun or fairness.
2) Build glitched list. Screamerstar+hounds, Baron+Council, etc
3) Run your invincible squad into anyone trying to play any other army
4) profit.

GW can make gakky rules, but if people never took that first step, it would never be a problem. GW isn't ruining the game, douche crackers who run dog house like this are. Let's quit passing the buck.

You must have emotional issues if this sets you off.

If you dont want to play a competitive game, don't. Most players wont bring that list to a fun casual game. If you are at a GT then bring your best. This must be a bad joke. People will always take the best options during competitions.. Why wouldnt they!

cod3x wrote:
He thought you were relying on the rending of the shurikens to kill TEQ, not realizing you were making a volume of wounds argument.

Tactics with the Seercouncil are simple:
1) Stop caring about fun or fairness.
2) Build glitched list. Screamerstar+hounds, Baron+Council, etc
3) Run your invincible squad into anyone trying to play any other army
4) profit.

GW can make gakky rules, but if people never took that first step, it would never be a problem. GW isn't ruining the game, douche crackers who run dog house like this are. Let's quit passing the buck.

thats for a great and insightful post full of awesome suggestions

I see what you're getting at, Powerguy. I basically made that argument already. Saying TEQ doesn't slow down that unit is simply not true, though. Can it kill guys in it? Yeah. Is it something they should probably ignore in favor of chewing through scoring units to deny the enemy victory points? Absolutely. You can bring a War Walker with two Starcannons on it for 70 points instead and get more use out of that against TEQ as a compliment to the Warlock council.

You can bring 10 windrider bikes for 170 points instead and get the exact same result as the Warlock council is going to get while shooting. I want my 600+ deathstar unit to make sure it's winning me the game by earning me victory points (or denying the enemy theirs) which typically means it's better off ignoring things that get significant saving throws.

Don't forget that one of the Runes of Battle spells reduces a unit's armor save by one, making that TEQ a MEQ instead.

But like people said before, you want to ally Dark Eldar and run Baron Sarthonyx. He is a jump infantry with a 2++ invulnerable, hit and run, plasma grenades, and Stealth. Then just get two Farseers to up the chance of getting fortune, and lots of Warlocks on bikes.

Personally, I prefer to run:

Farseer - 180
w/ Jetbike, Shard, Both Runes.

Farseer - 145
w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, Both Runes

Warlock Council - 275
w/ 5 x Members, Jetbikes.

This mini-star comes to 600pts but is still a huge pain for your opponent to deal with. Of course, its job changes from "all-out assault" to "bullying, harassing and troop destroying" but that's always preferable in my opinion.

This also gives you room for more units in your army (typically I'm packing 2 x Wave Serpents, 3 x Venoms, a Ravager and a Wraithknight in addition to the mini-council), giving a much more balanced list on the whole.

Iranna.

Well, a Jetseer Council can work quite well, but I think it is too expensive at the 1500 pt level. If you battle Nids, you will face ''Shadow in the Warp''.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, a Jetseer Council can work quite well, but I think it is too expensive at the 1500 pt level. If you battle Nids, you will face ''Shadow in the Warp''.

the more i poke around with army lists the most it looks like thats the case, im generally not a big fan of "star" units and would rather not put all my eggs in one basket. Think I'll stick to spamming serpents

 ironicsilence wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, a Jetseer Council can work quite well, but I think it is too expensive at the 1500 pt level. If you battle Nids, you will face ''Shadow in the Warp''.

the more i poke around with army lists the most it looks like thats the case, im generally not a big fan of "star" units and would rather not put all my eggs in one basket. Think I'll stick to spamming serpents

Indeed, a Seer Council can be a gamble.

How will your Serpent spam look like?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, a Jetseer Council can work quite well, but I think it is too expensive at the 1500 pt level. If you battle Nids, you will face ''Shadow in the Warp''.

the more i poke around with army lists the most it looks like thats the case, im generally not a big fan of "star" units and would rather not put all my eggs in one basket. Think I'll stick to spamming serpents

Indeed, a Seer Council can be a gamble.

How will your Serpent spam look like?

I'm still toying around with the lists, right now I'm stuck between a more competitive DA focused list and a list that uses wraithguard and wraithknights. I think I'm leaning more towards using wraith units just so I can actually use the models. The list would prolly take 2 wraith knights and 1 unit of wraith guard. Sprinkle in some warwalkers and a squad of warp spiders maybe. Not looking to make anything ultra competitive, just a competitive army that I still have fun playing.

 ironicsilence wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, a Jetseer Council can work quite well, but I think it is too expensive at the 1500 pt level. If you battle Nids, you will face ''Shadow in the Warp''.

the more i poke around with army lists the most it looks like thats the case, im generally not a big fan of "star" units and would rather not put all my eggs in one basket. Think I'll stick to spamming serpents

Indeed, a Seer Council can be a gamble.

How will your Serpent spam look like?

I'm still toying around with the lists, right now I'm stuck between a more competitive DA focused list and a list that uses wraithguard and wraithknights. I think I'm leaning more towards using wraith units just so I can actually use the models. The list would prolly take 2 wraith knights and 1 unit of wraith guard. Sprinkle in some warwalkers and a squad of warp spiders maybe. Not looking to make anything ultra competitive, just a competitive army that I still have fun playing.

Well, with such a Wraith list you may have trouble controlling objectives in missions with a few objectives.

Here's a good link to get you started/prepped for playing the seer council.

Enjoy!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/548595.page

 w0lfgang7 wrote:
Here's a good link to get you started/prepped for playing the seer council.

Enjoy!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/548595.page

awesome thread thanks bud!