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Can someone explain to me how this would work.

Lets say a group has FNP 6+ from being shot at with a Warpflame weapon. The unit is then blessed by a Biomancy Psyker to have a 5+ FNP. Would you no be able to roll both? I can't seem to find any rule stating that you cannot roll multiple FNP variants, however I can find that it states FNP isn't considered a saving throw, like Armor Saves or Invulnerable saves.

Anyone kind enough to point me in the right direction on this?

I think you would first need something that says that multiple cases of Feel No Pain would stack...

If the unit has Feel No Pain and a rule grants it Feel No Pain, then the unit now has Feel No Pain.

There is a section on the first page of the special rules section that says you cannot gain the benefit of a USR twice.

Beautiful, thank you LoB. Had this come up in a game today and I let it slip because I couldn't find out where to prove my opponent wrong XD

Also in your case Warpflame also says that it improves FNP rolls by 1. So you would just have a 4+ FNP.

Fragile wrote:
Also in your case Warpflame also says that it improves FNP rolls by 1. So you would just have a 4+ FNP.

I think that would only occur if the psychic power was on the squad prior to them getting shot by Warpflame, not after.

tallguynsc wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Also in your case Warpflame also says that it improves FNP rolls by 1. So you would just have a 4+ FNP.

I think that would only occur if the psychic power was on the squad prior to them getting shot by Warpflame, not after.

raises an interesting question though, what happens in the following player turn when the power wares off, does the squad retain a +1 FNP roll? (giving a naked squad fnp 6+)

Well I do know that in Codex Space Marines you can have multiple instances of FNP on a model, thanks to Iron Hands Chapter Tactics and the Apothecaries Narthecium. However it goes on to clarify in the Chapter Tactics section that you can only benefit from one FNP, although it is always the better version.

So in your case I think you would get the 5+.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

tallguynsc wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Also in your case Warpflame also says that it improves FNP rolls by 1. So you would just have a 4+ FNP.

I think that would only occur if the psychic power was on the squad prior to them getting shot by Warpflame, not after.

raises an interesting question though, what happens in the following player turn when the power wares off, does the squad retain a +1 FNP roll? (giving a naked squad fnp 6+)

Nothing states you only evaluate the rule once, so indeed you get a 6+

tallguynsc wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Also in your case Warpflame also says that it improves FNP rolls by 1. So you would just have a 4+ FNP.

I think that would only occur if the psychic power was on the squad prior to them getting shot by Warpflame, not after.

It does not. The +1 to the FNP roll from Warpflame last for the rest of the game. You check for Warpflame and FNP (from endurance) at the same time (unsaved wound). Since you have a FNP source on you and Warpflame, then you get a 4+

Warpflame's effects last for the rest of the game but the type of effect is chosen when warpflame is applied.
"If the test is passed, all models in the unit gain the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule for the rest of the game. Any models in the unit that already have the Feel No Pain special rule instead gain +1 to all Feel No Pain rolls for the rest of the game."


It seems the order would be like this:


Unit without FNP gets warpflamed. Gain 6+ FNP.
Unit then gets 5+ FNP from Endurance, Unit now has 5+ FNP.

VS

Unit has endurance cast on it. Gets 5+ FNP.
Unit then gets warpflamed. Gains +1 FNP. Now has 4+ FNP.
Endurance fades - unit now has no FNP.
Unit gains endurance again. Back to 4+ FNP.
Unit gets warpflamed. Gains an additional +1 for effective 3+ FNP.
Endurance fades. Unit now has no FNP (but still +2 to FNP rolls)
Unit gets warpflamed again. Gains 6+ FNP, but still retains the +2, for an effective 4+ FNP.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:

tallguynsc wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Also in your case Warpflame also says that it improves FNP rolls by 1. So you would just have a 4+ FNP.

I think that would only occur if the psychic power was on the squad prior to them getting shot by Warpflame, not after.

raises an interesting question though, what happens in the following player turn when the power wares off, does the squad retain a +1 FNP roll? (giving a naked squad fnp 6+)

Nothing states you only evaluate the rule once, so indeed you get a 6+

I really think that the only way to play it is that you still have warpflame and you evaluate it at the point of effect.

RaW, I think Trasvi has a valid point, but HIWPl is that the 6+ is just how the bonus works while you don't otherwise have FNP.

Trasvi wrote:
Warpflame's effects last for the rest of the game but the type of effect is chosen when warpflame is applied.
"If the test is passed, all models in the unit gain the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule for the rest of the game. Any models in the unit that already have the Feel No Pain special rule instead gain +1 to all Feel No Pain rolls for the rest of the game."


It seems the order would be like this:


Unit without FNP gets warpflamed. Gain 6+ FNP.
Unit then gets 5+ FNP from Endurance, Unit now has 5+ FNP.

VS

Unit has endurance cast on it. Gets 5+ FNP.
Unit then gets warpflamed. Gains +1 FNP. Now has 4+ FNP.
Endurance fades - unit now has no FNP.
Unit gains endurance again. Back to 4+ FNP.
Unit gets warpflamed. Gains an additional +1 for effective 3+ FNP.
Endurance fades. Unit now has no FNP (but still +2 to FNP rolls)
Unit gets warpflamed again. Gains 6+ FNP, but still retains the +2, for an effective 4+ FNP.

How do you resolve Stealth?
If not the same as above, why not?

rigeld2 wrote:
How do you resolve Stealth?
If not the same as above, why not?

Differently, because the rules for stealth are worded very differently.

Stealth
"A unit that contains at least one rnodel with this special rule counts its cover saves as being I point better than normal.
Note that this means that a model with the Stealth special rule always has a cover save of at least 6+, even if it is in the open."

This is quite obviously not at all the same as the warpflame wording, as it explicitly says that you gain +1 even in the open.
Warpflame gives you one of two effects, and whichever you get will last for the rest of the game.
Also, warpflame gives you +1 to your FNP rolls. If you don't have FNP, you can't make FNP rolls. Stealth on the other hand makes your cover save one point better (not, gives +1 to cover save rolls). In this instance Warpflame is instead worded more similarly to "Go To Ground", which explicitly either gives you +1 to your roll OR 6+ cover.


EDIT: Thinking about it a little more, I'm thinking that multiple warpflames would probably not stack, as you have multiple instances of the same special rule "Warpflame", because even though they have different effects "Warpflame(FNP(6+))" and "Warpflame(+1 FNP)" possibly are still the same special rule. Regardless, I think RAW +1 to FNP rolls does not equate to allowing a model without FNP to make a FNP(6+) roll.
HIWPI is that it indeed does give FNP(6+) if/when your original FNP fades.

I hadn't thought about the stacking problem. For some reason I had it in my head that Warpflame FNP explicitly stacks with itself. But I don't see that in the rule?

Given that's it's clearly a special rule (BRB pg 51, "Special Rules") and "...a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once." (BRB pg 32), is it non-stacking?

If you have FNP and you get Warpflamed, you still have a 5+ FNP.

Imagine your some Blood Angels unit near a Sanguinary Priest. Then you get Warpflamed. Then the Priest is no longer near by. What do you say you're FNP is now?

It's 6+. So it must have been 6+ from the Warpflaming before.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
If you have FNP and you get Warpflamed, you still have a 5+ FNP.

Imagine your some Blood Angels unit near a Sanguinary Priest. Then you get Warpflamed. Then the Priest is no longer near by. What do you say you're FNP is now?

It's 6+. So it must have been 6+ from the Warpflaming before.

Except if you read the Warpflame rule, RAW that isn't at all what happens. See above.
If you don't have any FNP and get warpflamed, you now have FNP(6).
If you have FNP(X) and get warpflamed, you INSTEAD now have FNP(X) with +1 to your rolls.

Thus if you have FNP(X), get warpflamed, then lose FNP(X), you now have +1 to rolls which you are not allowed to make.