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Hey folks! I haven't been able to get back to painting much with my busy schedule, but I will in due time. But the real reason I made this thread was for asking about how I could maybe start a small, but good ig army, that I can use just for fun small skirmish battles on the table. I already have the codex, and 1 squad of cadian troops, so I guess I have a decent start to this project, but does anyone else have any ideas?

How do you define small? How many points? By skirmish do you mean killteam?

The problem with IG is that the ground infantry isn't the core of the list . Sure IG does use veterans ,but without transports they aren't realy that useful . Our fire power comes from vehicles and if you go after the blob infantry , then they aren't that cheap to make their firepower be in your favor against armies with +4 or worse +3 sv. They are also very slow and that is big problem in w40k . Till you start playing 1500 points you will always have those problems . Always not enough dudes , living long enough to do something .

Add some Leman Russes/Ordnance pieces ASAP for some heavy weight firepower that'll tip the balance, as for all the good of having many Lasguns they are still Guardsmen and they can struggle to get in reach and beat an enemy greater in points value (you're going to lose a lot of men) and effectiveness per model, which is why they'll lose without support.

Vendettas are a risk at this stage, wait for the Codex in about a month to decide whether they're worth it or not.

Also, decide on whether you're going with foot based blob infantry or mechanized infantry primarily, at the very least its best to focus one with your lists before moving onto adapting to be able to play the other for variation.

That said, the new Codex may make airborne infantry viable. We'll see.

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Hey folks! I haven't been able to get back to painting much with my busy schedule, but I will in due time. But the real reason I made this thread was for asking about how I could maybe start a small, but good ig army, that I can use just for fun small skirmish battles on the table. I already have the codex, and 1 squad of cadian troops, so I guess I have a decent start to this project, but does anyone else have any ideas?

Ignore the others, pick up Imperial Armour volume 3 Second Edition, and look at the cool things you can do with Valkyries and Deep Striking guard squads.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Hey folks! I haven't been able to get back to painting much with my busy schedule, but I will in due time. But the real reason I made this thread was for asking about how I could maybe start a small, but good ig army, that I can use just for fun small skirmish battles on the table. I already have the codex, and 1 squad of cadian troops, so I guess I have a decent start to this project, but does anyone else have any ideas?

Ignore the others, pick up Imperial Armour volume 3 Second Edition, and look at the cool things you can do with Valkyries and Deep Striking guard squads.

Also feel the chilling coolness of being told to piss off by the people in your gaming group, absolutely free.

Nobody's ever had a problem with my Elysians, why would OK21's club be any different?

Fact is, Elysians are the best option for small IG armies because of higher points-per-model and better access to close-range weaponry.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nobody's ever had a problem with my Elysians, why would OK21's club be any different?

Fact is, Elysians are the best option for small IG armies because of higher points-per-model and better access to close-range weaponry.

Not really. Their whole playstyle is completely unreliable anyway.

Deepstriking your infantry or bringing them on in flyers isn't a viable strategy nor likely to work well -Tau and their stupid cheap interceptor will shut you down faster than you can say "I jink/go to ground". If your opponent has any AA that proves effective and you don't Grav Chute those infantry immediately (again, risky), you'll be lucky to have 1-2 men survive Crash and Burn.

Remember: a player can effectively prepare for the possibility of flyers just by throwing in a Quad ADL, but AV14? That requires a strategy, logistics and the rare right weapon for a unit.

Drop Sentinels are frankly naff at 75~ for the MM variant, it'd be far easier just to take another Vendetta, which standard IG don't lack anyway if they need them.

Elysians iirc don't get much more than that. You've got Tauros vehicles which are iffy and not that great at supplementing your army with firepower at all, Leman Russ tanks make them look frankly silly.

Besides, as per IA1-2E both Tauros vehicles and Drop Sentinels can be used by standard IG armies. There's probably a more updated book that permits it but that's the one I know where it is the case at least.

Oh, and you have the added benefit of paying double for every model in cash. A list that effectively uses a single, or even pair of Russes is by far the best at low points as they're very difficult to kill without a unit that is quite optimised for killing them, and they can half wipe squads with relative ease.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Elysians suck.

So, let me get this straight: the Elysian drop troops list is so weak that you'll probably never win a game, but simultaneously so broken that if you play it you should expect to be shunned by the other players?

I don't think that the shuning has anything to do with it being broken , but with it being a FW list. If someone lets anyone at a store use a weak FW army/unit , then anyone else using an actualy good FW unit couldn't be vetoed by him without looking bad .

Makumba wrote:
I don't think that the shuning has anything to do with it being broken, but with it being a FW list. If someone lets anyone at a store use a weak FW army/unit, then anyone else using an actualy good FW unit couldn't be vetoed by him without looking bad.

Yeah... that ship has sailed by this point, I think.

If you're willing to kick another player just because they have FW minis/FW list, you're already a bad sport. Kicking another player because you're afraid to lose on top is worse, granted, but by that point you're still already a bad sport. It hardly matters if you're a cowardly one too, in terms of looking bad.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Elysians suck.

So, let me get this straight: the Elysian drop troops list is so weak that you'll probably never win a game, but simultaneously so broken that if you play it you should expect to be shunned by the other players?

But understand the initial comment was more of a social commentary than a jab at it as though it was broken. Most circles don't care to adapt to FW, especially given this list is one where without the meta adapting your opponents can't hit you. Is that broken? Probably not. IG can do it almost as well, and given they adapt its more than possible to beat a list spamming flyers.

In a competitive environment, its not going to hold up as a TAC list. This is the meaning of my second post.

BAAACK TO TOPIC

Anyway, the first thing you want to do, is decide how you want your army to play like.

Base codex is mostly for a gunline of cheap troops backed artillery pieces and some heavy armor, a sort of "jack of all trades" force.

You got the armored assault for someone who wants tanks, tanks and some more tanks. tanks in HQ, tanks in troops, you can have nothing BUT tanks in your army, and it will work.

Elysians that were mentioned are the "airborn" IG army, using airplanes to control the sky and "paratroopers" to take the ground.

Death corps got the calavary of doom, and can pull off massive artillery barrages.

Well, its going to be about 500-1000 points, and I wanted to make it an all around list, so maybe, just like an example I got from a white dwarf magazine pic of an ig army that was just, 2 squads of cadian troopers,1 command squad, 1 leman russ tank, or some other type of heavy armored vehicle, and the 2-3 heavy weapons squads. Idk what the point total would be, since I don't have my codex on hand right now, but I will definitely have to check with my group on the whole Elysian topic, since I know that 1 or 2 of the guys in the group I play in, have ig armies, and have very HARDCORE, and very nice armies, and lists, when they put them on the table, so I could ask them. But lately I have been so busy with schooling, etc, and a play that im in, that will be taking most of my free time. But I was thinking of making the army be the steel legion theme, if I can get my hands on a box of them. Or................

I purchase the cadian ig battleforce
then maybe buy another box of cadian troops,
or just buy 1 or 2 tanks and call it good, after painting them.
I also will make them themed, with the painting, since I'd like to paint them on how the ig soldiers most likely looked like in a short story I had to write for a class, where I had to talk about a visit to a fictional place, so I wrote about myself as a cadian guardsman fighting tyranids on a planet on the outer rim, trying to re-capture an outpost that has been overrun, and is filled with gore, etc.

but anyways, would purchasing the battleforce, and a heavy support unit, and maybe an hq , be the best idea to just have a nice little back-up list that I could just have fun with, be good?

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Well, its going to be about 500-1000 points, and I wanted to make it an all around list, so maybe, just like an example I got from a white dwarf magazine pic of an ig army that was just, 2 squads of cadian troopers,1 command squad, 1 leman russ tank, or some other type of heavy armored vehicle, and the 2-3 heavy weapons squads. Idk what the point total would be, since I don't have my codex on hand right now, but I will definitely have to check with my group on the whole Elysian topic, since I know that 1 or 2 of the guys in the group I play in, have ig armies, and have very HARDCORE, and very nice armies, and lists, when they put them on the table, so I could ask them. But lately I have been so busy with schooling, etc, and a play that im in, that will be taking most of my free time. But I was thinking of making the army be the steel legion theme, if I can get my hands on a box of them. Or................

I purchase the cadian ig battleforce
then maybe buy another box of cadian troops,
or just buy 1 or 2 tanks and call it good, after painting them.
I also will make them themed, with the painting, since I'd like to paint them on how the ig soldiers most likely looked like in a short story I had to write for a class, where I had to talk about a visit to a fictional place, so I wrote about myself as a cadian guardsman fighting tyranids on a planet on the outer rim, trying to re-capture an outpost that has been overrun, and is filled with gore, etc.

but anyways, would purchasing the battleforce, and a heavy support unit, and maybe an hq , be the best idea to just have a nice little back-up list that I could just have fun with, be good?

I wouldn't recommend the battleforce its not very good for what you get... You cant go wrong by troops even in tank heavy list troops are there to a point. Getting leman maybe the one with the demolisher and executioner wouldn't be a bad idea either

So you think the example i got from the white dwarf magazine would be bvetter? Then i would pretty much have to get the battleforce, which would make up the bulk of the army, then just buy the tanks, or other heavy support unit(s), or i have another plan also, which is only, 1 command squad, 2 squads of cadian troops, and the 2-3 heavy weapons squads. That might work, nut then again, i dont have my codex on hand at the momento, so i cant add up the point total.

Here is a pic that might give you all a better idea of what im going for....... Just take out maybe the sentinel. and 1 of the stormtrooper squads, unless, i actually decide to run mainly stormtroopers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, take out the 3 extra guys to the left/right of the commissar in the middle, and maybe replace the chimera with a leman russ, and take out the commissar, (maybe) for a command squad, unless the commissar is a better idea, then add in the 1 or 2 other heavy weapons squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the squads of cadian troopers, would be 10 man squads, so im assuming that the 2 sergeants behind the commissar, and the 3 other guards, are part of those squads on the left.......

Does the visual even help??????? Or do I need to put up a new visual?

Zengu wrote:

 orkkiller21 wrote:
Well, its going to be about 500-1000 points, and I wanted to make it an all around list, so maybe, just like an example I got from a white dwarf magazine pic of an ig army that was just, 2 squads of cadian troopers,1 command squad, 1 leman russ tank, or some other type of heavy armored vehicle, and the 2-3 heavy weapons squads. Idk what the point total would be, since I don't have my codex on hand right now, but I will definitely have to check with my group on the whole Elysian topic, since I know that 1 or 2 of the guys in the group I play in, have ig armies, and have very HARDCORE, and very nice armies, and lists, when they put them on the table, so I could ask them. But lately I have been so busy with schooling, etc, and a play that im in, that will be taking most of my free time. But I was thinking of making the army be the steel legion theme, if I can get my hands on a box of them. Or................

I purchase the cadian ig battleforce
then maybe buy another box of cadian troops,
or just buy 1 or 2 tanks and call it good, after painting them.
I also will make them themed, with the painting, since I'd like to paint them on how the ig soldiers most likely looked like in a short story I had to write for a class, where I had to talk about a visit to a fictional place, so I wrote about myself as a cadian guardsman fighting tyranids on a planet on the outer rim, trying to re-capture an outpost that has been overrun, and is filled with gore, etc.

but anyways, would purchasing the battleforce, and a heavy support unit, and maybe an hq , be the best idea to just have a nice little back-up list that I could just have fun with, be good?

I wouldn't recommend the battleforce its not very good for what you get... You cant go wrong by troops even in tank heavy list troops are there to a point. Getting leman maybe the one with the demolisher and executioner wouldn't be a bad idea either

There's no reason not to buy it though. You spend the same either way, and with the battleforce you get an extra unit (that for all we know may be pretty good next codex) and all the bits that come with it. Having a set of heavy weapons is never a bad thing, and he'll at least need a few just in case he wants to try them. If he's going to buy all the core units that come in it anyways (the infantry platoon) why not go ahead and buy the battleforce to get a free sentinel?

To the OP, we really can't give you any solid advice with the book supposedly coming out soon. It's safe to say though that 20-30 more guardsmen and a command squad would be a safe investment, because no matter what, you will need guardsmen. Look up ways to buy extra meltas and Plasma guns too, you can order them direct from GW, or get lookalikes from 3rd party bits vendors. Make up a few vet squads worth of guys and paint them, and by the time you have them done the new dex will be out and we can give you better advice.

EDIT: Also, your "visual" is really confusing. I'm not really sure what you're trying to tell us with it.

With the words IG and small in the same sentence, the clearest way forward is using mechanized vets.
Small numbers, potentially competitive, and no messing around with FW books and models if you don't want to.

Storm troops aren't great, personally if you like the models, then use them as plasma or melta vet squads with carapace armour (or without for that matter).

Get 2 or 3 chimera vets, a couple of vendettas with some more vets in, the rest of the points covers the HQ. In higher points games you can add more tanks/ artillery.

Something like this?

HQ - CCS, Plasma x4, 1 Astropath, Chimera

Troops - Vets, Plasma x3, Chimera
Troops - Vets, Plasma x3, Chimera
Troops - Vets, Melta x3
Troops - Vets, Melta x3

Fast Attack - Vendetta Gunship, Heavy Bolters
Fast Attack - Vendetta Gunship, Heavy Bolters

1000 points

Is 45 men and 5 vehicles small? For IG I'd say this is about as small as it gets whilst still fielding a decent list.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
With the words IG and small in the same sentence, the clearest way forward is using mechanized vets.
Small numbers, potentially competitive, and no messing around with FW books and models if you don't want to.

Storm troops aren't great, personally if you like the models, then use them as plasma or melta vet squads with carapace armour (or without for that matter).

Get 2 or 3 chimera vets, a couple of vendettas with some more vets in, the rest of the points covers the HQ. In higher points games you can add more tanks/ artillery.

Something like this?

HQ - CCS, Plasma x4, 1 Astropath, Chimera

Troops - Vets, Plasma x3, Chimera
Troops - Vets, Plasma x3, Chimera
Troops - Vets, Melta x3
Troops - Vets, Melta x3

Fast Attack - Vendetta Gunship, Heavy Bolters
Fast Attack - Vendetta Gunship, Heavy Bolters

1000 points

Is 45 men and 5 vehicles small? For IG I'd say this is about as small as it gets whilst still fielding a decent list.

Yeah but the thing is all of this could change soon. I'm talking like April soon.

If I was a new guy starting out, I would hate to buy all this stuff and have a new book come out in 2 months that invalidates what I was planning on doing.

For example, we'll probably see vet squads drop to 2 special weapons max next codex. Every time we see them pop up in FW recently that seems to be the restriction they have. Vendettas could get a points increase (they better) and who knows what else. If he was going to be playing much higher points, yeah, it wouldn't really matter, but if he's staying at a 1,000 and lower I really don't feel comfortable recommending anything more than the absolute basics that we KNOW he'll need.

Well Ideally he shouldn't buy anything yet. Even the basics can change.

Of course there will still be guardsmen, so he could just paint a few squad of those up.

I will still crush you with my orks coming originally from the same club the FW rules are game. No one there will stop you and if they do they can get over it. I can't say much on guard as I have never played them or played against them. As stated above get some heavy armor, little guards can get shot up by everything! Good luck! Next time I'm in town I look forward to playing a game.

Heck yeah dude! When will you be in town? And yeah, my plans for this list are super varied at the moment, so I'm not sure what I really want yet, but I'll definitely look into the vets, etc

Does anyone want a different visual or example??