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Hey folks, I don't really play the bugs, but all their apparent troubles sort of tug at my heartstrings and I really want them to do well. So I'm trying to think of a list that could do well in a competitive setting (beast-star Dark Eldar, Screamer Star Daemons, 3 Tide Tau, "Eldar" with "transports", blah blah blah). I know Dakka resident Blackmoor went 4-1 at the recent LVO, losing finally to Mr. Fennel, the guy who ended up winning the whole event. So I looked up his list, and listened to some recent BoLS podcasts, and having poured over the codex a bunch lately I've got this in my mind right now:

HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Termagants w/ 10 Devourers= 160
Troops: 21 Termagants w/ 10 Devourers= 124
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: Mawloc= 140
FORT: Bastion w/ Comm-Link= 95

For a grand total 1,999pts. Basically works like Blackmoor's LVO list, but with more stuff. The two larger Termagant squads use Hive Commander to Outflank, the little one babysits the Comm-Link, Things generally hide turn 1, then all 5 flyers gun forward turn two when most of the army shows up from reserves. I do whatever damage I can in that second turn, and then presumably my enemy is in a position from which they can't handle all the targets I've presented them with, and things go from there. List sports 9 Monstrous Creatures, 5 flying, and the 2 outflanking units, makes for quite a lot to handle, especially after taking the hits from my second turn.... right??

Help and thoughts appreciated!

orkdom wrote:
Hey folks, I don't really play the bugs, but all their apparent troubles sort of tug at my heartstrings and I really want them to do well. So I'm trying to think of a list that could do well in a competitive setting (beast-star Dark Eldar, Screamer Star Daemons, 3 Tide Tau, "Eldar" with "transports", blah blah blah). I know Dakka resident Blackmoor went 4-1 at the recent LVO, losing finally to Mr. Fennel, the guy who ended up winning the whole event. So I looked up his list, and listened to some recent BoLS podcasts, and having poured over the codex a bunch lately I've got this in my mind right now:

HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Termagants w/ 10 Devourers= 160
Troops: 21 Termagants w/ 10 Devourers= 124
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: Mawloc= 140
FORT: Bastion w/ Comm-Link= 95

For a grand total 1,999pts. Basically works like Blackmoor's LVO list, but with more stuff. The two larger Termagant squads use Hive Commander to Outflank, the little one babysits the Comm-Link, Things generally hide turn 1, then all 5 flyers gun forward turn two when most of the army shows up from reserves. I do whatever damage I can in that second turn, and then presumably my enemy is in a position from which they can't handle all the targets I've presented them with, and things go from there. List sports 9 Monstrous Creatures, 5 flying, and the 2 outflanking units, makes for quite a lot to handle, especially after taking the hits from my second turn.... right??

Help and thoughts appreciated!

To my eye you have a severe lack of Synapse...I'd want to toss in Zoey brood, or a small warrior brood( 3 warriors,one with a cannon), maybe they can be your babysitters instead of the Terms? I think I'd lose one crone and put in 3 warrior brood and a Zoey brood( 1 zoey?) and feel better.
And that gets you a little more Pschy roll action to get something usefull....

Yeah, I had that thought as well. But I think the Crones will be more important to my game, honestly, than some of the other stuff in the list. One Mawloc is right on for 3 Warriors and a Zoan, 140pts. I could drop a Mawloc for them, and the 10 Terms for more Devourers on each of the big squads. Like so:

HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 200
Troops: 26 Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 164
Troops: 3 Warriors w/ Barbed Strangler= 70
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: Mawloc= 140
FORT: Bastion w/ Comm-Link= 95

I'm wondering if both the Zoan and Warriors are really necessary, however: they're both basically limited to playing the backfield synapse role, and I only need one unit to sit on the comm-link. But, there is the potential problem of someone shooting the bastion in turn 1, which would really screw my reserve rolls. Maybe a venomthrope to help protect the bastion a little bit? Drop the Zoan for a Venom, I still have the backfield synapse and units on the comm-link, plus those guys have great cover saves when they can take them and the bastion now gets a save too! Thoughts?

Finally: any opinions on the Trygon Prime for extra Synapse up front? Any way to get it into this list realistically?

orkdom wrote:
Yeah, I had that thought as well. But I think the Crones will be more important to my game, honestly, than some of the other stuff in the list. One Mawloc is right on for 3 Warriors and a Zoan, 140pts. I could drop a Mawloc for them, and the 10 Terms for more Devourers on each of the big squads. Like so:

HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 200
Troops: 26 Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 164
Troops: 3 Warriors w/ Barbed Strangler= 70
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: Mawloc= 140
FORT: Bastion w/ Comm-Link= 95

I'm wondering if both the Zoan and Warriors are really necessary, however: they're both basically limited to playing the backfield synapse role, and I only need one unit to sit on the comm-link. But, there is the potential problem of someone shooting the bastion in turn 1, which would really screw my reserve rolls. Maybe a venomthrope to help protect the bastion a little bit? Drop the Zoan for a Venom, I still have the backfield synapse and units on the comm-link, plus those guys have great cover saves when they can take them and the bastion now gets a save too! Thoughts?

Finally: any opinions on the Trygon Prime for extra Synapse up front? Any way to get it into this list realistically?

Well its "just me" but I buy Synapse like I buy insurance...expecting the worst. So if I need a Synapse some place I want Two to be available, one to camp out and one with (hopefully) enough mobility.

(late add: I'd camp the warriors, and ask Zoey to shuttle to the midfield, and so can press foward,Or fall back, as needed)

So I like the list "as is", and would like it less with the Veno, but it needs to fit your style of play....so swapping might be just fine

Sounds fine, except I noticed later that I fudged the points. This list appears to already be over 19pts, whoops! And on top of that, 3 Warriors w/ Strangler is 100pts, not 70pts. But then the 30-gant unit is actually only 180pts. So over by 29pts, and back to the drawing board a bit....

HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers= 230
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Outflanking Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 180
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: Mawloc= 140
HS: 3 Biovores= 120
FORT: Bastion w/ Comm-Link= 95

That's 1,995 upon checking. Less stuff popping into their backfield turn 2, but I've got more firepower dropping, and more synapse and psychic powers bumping around. 10 Gants and a Zoan sit on the comm-link, the other 10 hide in reserves and try to stay there as long as possible, everything else of course just pushes at the enemy, hiding turn one and bursting out with everything turn 2, et cetera. Look fair?

Definately worth a play, just jot down notes so you can fine tune perfection If you can please post some outcomes...

I definitely like the last iteration the most! You could even maybe split the 30-gants into a 20 w/ 15 devourers and 10 normals while outflanking the Tervigon. Never underestimate a troop-spawning T-6 W-6 MC with possible catalyst/warp blast and synapse coming into the middle of the fight!

Can't split the 30, that's what makes the Tervy a troops choice! Thanks for the input, though.

Gonna try and play this against some really competitive Eldar later in the week, see what happens, heh. I'll let y'all know.

Well, so, got a game in today against a vey aggressive but one-dimensional CSM list. I won, but not nearly soundly enough. Played a mission similar to what will be in the tournament (think of MVBrandt's Nova missions) and came out 13-10 on Kill Points, tied on everything else.

A general problem with the list is that this Chaos army had almost absolutely no shooting in it whatsoever. So any army with 5 FMCs that doesn't beat the Chaos list my opponent brought is either having a terrible dice day or just doesn't have any idea what they're doing (or some of both). Honestly my dice were pretty hot there (the 30-gant unit outflanked on and shot a Khorne Juggerlord and Spawn for 22 wounds out of 62 shots! Blew them right off the table; and turn 1, the two flyrants caught the DP and blasted him to pieces, too, even though he had the "re-roll armour saves" boon). But I can't see any really disastrous mistakes I made.

It was a game of lessons, in some ways: as it turns out, Dominion is totally fricking useless at prevent IB checks anytime ever, because the Blessing goes away at the end of your opponent's turn, leaving you high and dry when you have to make your checks two seconds later (and before you're allowed to cast new powers for the turn). Speaking of IB, who really cares? I realized the crones are Ld 10; once I realized that, and also the problems with Dominion (which I had on every psyker in my army due to mediocre rolls, only to find out later how useless it was), I stopped caring about IB on my Crones, and guess what? THEY DID JUST FINE. Even the the gants who had to test turned out okay. Also, I've never used a Bastion before; apparently, when a pair of maulerfiends rolls up on you and blows your bastion to bits, the guys inside/on top are really quite screwed. And models that don't actually have anything to shoot with in this Bug codex are really pretty terrible, it seems to me.

Which brings me to the Mawlocs. They just sucked this game, and they have sucked every game I've seen them or used them. One Mishapped and died, and the other killed three whole cultists on arrival before being bludgeoned by a Mace-weilding sorcerer. I traded him 2 KP for 3 Cultists! 280pts terribly, horrifically, horribly spent.

The stars of the show are the Flyrants and the outflanking super-gant-squad. I wonder about an outflanking Tervigon armed with the Desicator Thorax biomorph and the Miasma Cannon.... But guys like him are just so expensive!

So I need to come up with replacements for them, I think.... I'm not sure where to go with it. Right now my thoughts are pretty limited: Jump one of the 10-gant units to near 30 with some Devourers, give them outflank, and then fill out the rest with: Tervigon, Exocrine, Tyrranofex, Hive Guard, or Dakkafexes.

I really want to use a Trygon Prime, but wow are they expensive for what they do.... Bith Trygon's guns need to be TL, or else they're really awful.

Anyway, what about one of the following?

LIST 1
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Outflanking Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 180
Troops: 27 Outflanking Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 168
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Exocrine= 170
HS: Exocrine= 170
HS: 3 Biovores= 120
Fortification: Bastion= 75
Total is 1998

LIST 2.
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Outflanking Termagants w/ 16 Devourers= 184
Troops: 30 Outflanking Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 180
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Exocrine= 170
HS: 3 Biovores= 120
Fortification: Bastion= 75
Total is 1999

LIST 3
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers, Hive Commander= 250
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers= 230
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Outflanking Termagants w/ 16 Devourers= 184
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Elites: 1 Zoanthrope= 50
Elites: 3 Hive Guard (Impalers)= 165
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Exocrine= 170
HS: Exocrine= 170
HS: 3 Biovores= 120
Fortification: Bastion= 75
Total is 1999

If you drop the mawlocs and don't run venomthropes then what are you getting from the bastion with comms in your list now? Bastion just adds cover for first turn and then your flyers are up in the air and does it really matter if one of your gants comes in on T3, especially if your opponent has transports that need to be cracked open first.

Great point, I missed that somehow. Easy to drop the Comms then, another 20pts to play with. I'll adjust the lists above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here's a slightly different list I came up with, trying out both the Trygon Prime and putting refocusing my flyrants a bit. I thought about only being able to fire one gun after Vector Strikes, and I feel it at least merits trying the flyrants out with only single TL Devourer sets. Vectors + 6 TL Dev shots should net you similar damage output, so the issue here is simply that a flyrant will be less able to go one way and shoot another. I wonder how big an issue that really is.

TRYGON LIST
HQ: Flyrant w/ TL Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Hive Commander= 280
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers= 230
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Outflanking Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 180
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Elites: Zoanthrope= 50
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Exocrine= 170
HS: Trygon Prime w/ Miasma Cannon= 255
Fortification: Bastion w/ Comm-Link= 95
Total is 2000

The Comm-Link is back in for this list because of the control it gives me. I'm almost always leaving all three gant units in reserve, and I'd like to ensure the little ones come on as late as possible-- maybe even utilizing the tunnel left by the trygon. This list starts with 7 TMCs on the board, which sounds pretty cool, but not unusual for 'nids and not insurmountable for really competitive opponents.

orkdom wrote:
Great point, I missed that somehow. Easy to drop the Comms then, another 20pts to play with. I'll adjust the lists above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here's a slightly different list I came up with, trying out both the Trygon Prime and putting refocusing my flyrants a bit. I thought about only being able to fire one gun after Vector Strikes, and I feel it at least merits trying the flyrants out with only single TL Devourer sets. Vectors + 6 TL Dev shots should net you similar damage output, so the issue here is simply that a flyrant will be less able to go one way and shoot another. I wonder how big an issue that really is.

TRYGON LIST
HQ: Flyrant w/ TL Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Hive Commander= 280
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x TL Devourers= 230
Troops: Tervigon= 195
Troops: 30 Outflanking Termagants w/ 15 Devourers= 180
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Troops: 10 Termagants= 40
Elites: Zoanthrope= 50
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
FA: Crone= 155
HS: Exocrine= 170
HS: Trygon Prime w/ Miasma Cannon= 255
Fortification: Bastion w/ Comm-Link= 95
Total is 2000

The Comm-Link is back in for this list because of the control it gives me. I'm almost always leaving all three gant units in reserve, and I'd like to ensure the little ones come on as late as possible-- maybe even utilizing the tunnel left by the trygon. This list starts with 7 TMCs on the board, which sounds pretty cool, but not unusual for 'nids and not insurmountable for really competitive opponents.

Looks nice, I've been toying with a Tyrant with Bone sword, Lashwhip, Toxin, and Brainleeches my self...please let us know how you like it!

I wouldn't be too quick to give up on the mawlocs.


They are a unit that can be quite situational but if played right can be one of the best units in the book.

Knowing what they can and can't handle is important. Knowing when to deploy them, hide them, deep strike them etc comes from experience using them. While they may not be as reliable as say exocrines, an exocrine will rarely win you a game on it's own-a mawloc can most definitely do that. It is the rule-breaking units that i like to use since they give the nids their flavour.

I can definitely see some situations in which I would be very glad to have them around. When I got my first look at the book, I and pretty much everyone in my group was thinking they were probably the best unit in Heavy Support-- and on paper, they are clearly amazing, and do just that bit of rule-breaking that might allow them to have major impacts on a game.

But paper isn't where the game exists, and in practice I've seen them be far too dependant on luck and circumstance to perform anywhere near expectations. They are not only very hit-or-miss, but they are also mostly one-hit-wonders against a sersious opponent. Something that likely only gets to do its thing once before it gets blown away in the firestorm needs needs needs to be more reliable on that first use than a Mawloc is, in my opinion. They're a unit that looks like they could really hammer broadsides or bike units, but the only thing I've seen them do so far is miss their target or do only very minimal damage to said target because of smart deployment by the opponent.

They're just too reliant on a number of factors that a Tyranid player cannot effectively or consistently control to be sound investments for me, at this point. I'd much prefer to put the points into Exocrines, or outflanking Termagants, or Hive Guard, or whatever, as I've done in the lists above.

I may try them out again somewhere but I don't see any point in them if they aren't DSing onto some enemy unit, and I don't see them doing that accurately on a consistent basis against targets who would really suffer from such a hit. You have to be playing an opponent who has units it's useful to target, on a board where they can't hide, and where your opponent doesn't deploy to counter them, and in a situation where you get good DS rolls. All to pull off their little trick just once. That's too much stuff out of my hands for the unit to be considered a serious competitive option right now.

If you have any tricks for them you could detail here, I'd be happy to read about them!