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So I want to make the most competitive daemon army at 1750pts. I've packed the list full of cheese. I know it's not a friendly list and it is not intended for friendly play.

HQ
Fateweaver (let's me reroll warp storm and gives a reroll AKA badass)

Herald of tzeentch ( these make the dreaded screamer star and also keep my troops in reserve with scriers gaze)
Disk, lvl3, locus of conjuration, grimnore
Herald of tzeentch
Lvl3, disk, portal glyph
Herald of tzeentch
Lvl3, disk

Slaneesh herald (hoping for invisibility and makes seekers much more of a threat)
Locus of grace, steed, lesser reward, lvl2

TROOPS
10 pink horrors

10 pink horrors

FAST ATTACK
8 screamers

15 khorne hounds (get in close early on and draw a lot of fire)

19 seekers (fly up the board and charge things like wraithknights and riptides)

So what do you guys think is this as competative as it gets at 1750?

It's not a bad list at all. Infact its pretty disgusting.

You do really need 4 heralds though to make the screamerstar work more often than not.

Also I find you can go down to 8 Screamers quite happily, 7 is a little too low.

One last addition I will add is the importance of blos cover for Fateweaver and providing a safe zone for other units i your army. For that reason I would highly suggest looking at the Bastion.

To give you a template, this is pretty horrific:

HQ
Fateweaver 300

Herald of Tzeentch, Mastery lvl 3, Exalted Reward (Grimoire), Disc 150
Herald of Tzeentch, Mastery lvl 3, Disc 120
Herald of Tzeentch, Mastery lvl 3, Disc 120
Herald of Tzeentch, Mastery lvl 3, Disc 120

Troops
10 Horrors+Champ 95
10 Plagues+Champ 95

Fast
9 Screamers 225

Allies
Company Command Squad 50
Vets 70
2 Vendetta, Heavy Bolters 280

Bastion/Quadgun 125

1750

Powerful? Sure.

Competitive? Meh, somewhat. But IMHO it is not the most competitive daemon army I've seen. Not by far.

PROS:

Strong, hard hitting power. At best, it's so powerful it's nuts. very hard unit, screamerstar is.

CONS:

BUT, the thing is, your ultramegapowerful screamerstar unit can only shoot at one unit at a time. So, in case you see a rhino/chimera parking lot, your ultramegasuperhyper screamerstar manages to use all that super power to kill one chimera or rhino. Sure, if the one unit you're shooting at is something more valuable all the better, but it is still a HUGE wasted potential to cram everything into one blob.

You have very few units, and few weak troops. Portal does help a bit, but it usually is shortlived against anyone who knows how to play. How I would deal with that army, is kill troops on turn 1-2, and then propably blow one or two blind tests or something psyker limiting on that deathstar. Or, I could use telepathy on YOUR troops. Sure, your deny the witch is more effective, but even one terrify spell is enough. That list can be very effective against some lists, but not so effective against others.

Deathstars like this are one-trick ponies. They hit hard, are very tough, and very hard to stop. But, especially in the tournament scene, people in the higher places usually are prepared to see deathstars. I know I am.

Well the idea behind the list is it isn't just the screamer star you have to deal with Bleak'or, khorne dogs and fate weaver plus with 10 rolls on divination I should get scriers gaze which should keep my troops in reserve.

That'll only be 7 rolls on divination, as you'll want your heralds to each have flickering fire too. Still a good chance of getting scrier's though.

I like it. I've been running something very similar at 1500 pts.

My list is basically yours, swapping one Tz'erald for a Kh'erald, minus Be'Lakor (love him he's just too expensive for a 1500 pt list), plus a 16 strong Daemonette blob.

I would generally deploy the hounds very aggressively and grimoire them on turn 1. At this point your opponent MUST dump obscene amounts of shooting into the hounds or risk losing at least 1 very possibly 2 valuable units to the hounds on turn 2. The Kh'erald with an Axe of Khorne and granting rage to the unit makes it killtacular.

Daemonettes run up the board as fast as they can and either back up the hounds if they run into something equally killy, or threaten other areas of the board.

Screamers do their Screamer thing and delete troops.

Overall I like the way it plays, and I think that played smart, this list will do well. I think you see Be'Lakor the same way I do. Often when I try to build lists with him in it that are not Flying Circi, people will cry "He's a force multiplier with no force to multiply!" Yes, he's a force multiplier, but he's also ridiculously killy and threatens even the hardest of targets.

Even if it's not the MOST competitive list, it is a damn good one, and should be fun to play. I'd definitely like to know how you do. Good luck and may the Chaos Gods smile on thee!!

Thanks for the input guys has anyone got anymore ideas? After a little bit of play testing I'm leaning towards taking off the portal and adding another screamer as I've never had trouble scoring in objective games.

Changed the list up I've still got 3 rolls for invisibility to try and get it on my hounds or my seekers. What do you think is it worth getting rid of Bleak'or??

Keep in mind, screamerstar isn't neccesarily more competitive than Flying Circus. I've had much better results with the circus.

Yeah here's my flying circus I'm tactically better with the flying circus but people keep telling me how good the screamer star is. Here's 1750 flying circus

HQ
Fateweaver (warlord)

Prince
Nurgle, greater (balesword), flight, armour, exalted (portal), lvl2

TROOPS
10 horrors

10 horrors

HEAVY SUPPORT
Prince
Tzeentch, wings, armour, greater reward, exalted (grimnore), lvl2

CSM
HQ
Bleak'or

TROOPS
10 cultists

10 cultists

FAST ATTACK
Baledrake

bobmgee wrote:
Thanks for the input guys has anyone got anymore ideas? After a little bit of play testing I'm leaning towards taking off the portal and adding another screamer as I've never had trouble scoring in objective games.

Eh>? How is dropping the Portal going to help you with scoring? Not that you should rely on Portal.

I still think you should have 4 heralds to give you better chances to grab Forewarning and also to give the star more shooting output from FF.

Yeah I'm leaning towards my flying circus it seems to be more reliable as I usually feel vulnerable turn one when I've borrowed my friends screamer star whereas with my flying circus I've managed to beat a lot of the top tear lists like ovesa star and white scars.

You want it as Competitive as possible? At 1750, I'd bring this: I have won a couple RT with this list:


HQ:

Fateweaver

Keeper of Secrets, greater, greater

Troops:

10 plague bearers
10 plague bearers


Heavy Support:

Daemon Prince, Slaanesh, greater, exalted, armor, wings,mastery 3

Daemon Prince, Slaanesh, greater, exalted, armor, wings,mastery 3

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch, greater, greater, lesser, armor, wings, mastery 3

That's good but I prefer having a 2++ on two MC's one being An in un the other cover.also having instant death on a prince is clutch against wraithknights.

I like the slaanesh princes for the AA. with iron arm you'll have 2d6 str 7-9 shots. Air is really the circus' main weakness, it handles the ground very well.

I can easily change the balesword prince to a lash for extra AA

How would you update this list to 1850 points? I am also looking to make a good list for an upcoming GT.

 Barnie25 wrote:
How would you update this list to 1850 points? I am also looking to make a good list for an upcoming GT.

Which list, Flying Circus or Screamerstar?

The Keeper of Secrets, Fateweaver Flying Circus build.

Sure thing. Change the troops as follows:

11 plaguebearers
20 daemonettes.

Spit out pink horrors on objectives with the portal

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Sure thing. Change the troops as follows:

11 plaguebearers
20 daemonettes.

Spit out pink horrors on objectives with the portal

This leaves you with 21 spare points.

A few questions though:


Is the lesser Tzeentch reward meant for the Staff of Change?


What role do the Daemonettes and the Keeper of Secrets play? Rush foward and bring death and destruction to my foe?

The staff of change for sure.

Daemonettes are lightning fast, as well as the keeper. They either take pressure off your FMC and the keeper allows slaanesh princes as heavies. The keeper with two greater rewards is pretty hearty and only clocks in at 210 points. Not only that, but it's only marginally slower than a FMC with fleet and the extra 3" to run, the same goes for the daemonettes. What makes the circus good is speed, and target saturation. Keeper and daemonettes only add to this. While, plague bearers and pink horrors usually do very minimal and sit on objectives.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
The staff of change for sure.

Daemonettes are lightning fast, as well as the keeper. They either take pressure off your FMC and the keeper allows slaanesh princes as heavies. The keeper with two greater rewards is pretty hearty and only clocks in at 210 points. Not only that, but it's only marginally slower than a FMC with fleet and the extra 3" to run, the same goes for the daemonettes. What makes the circus good is speed, and target saturation. Keeper and daemonettes only add to this. While, plague bearers and pink horrors usually do very minimal and sit on objectives.

Making your opponent fight on two fronts seems smart, he either chooses to deal with the ground units or with the flyers. Dealing with both will probably be quite hard, at least, to do in a effective manor.

I had 21 points to spare, If you drop the 11th Plaguebearer then you could make the Keeper of Secret ML2 and take a alures with the Daemonettes.

The extra ML is probably nice to have a second role on the Telepathy table and another chance to get invisibility. Or is that flawed thinking?

It's hit or miss. if I had to choose, I'd probably go for the extra ML on the keeper for sure.

As stated before, don't really play in GT's but I've won a few local RT's with this list. The Keeper of Secrets doesn't get a lot of love, but I gotta tell you man, he's brilliant!

The reasoning behind fielding the Keeper of Secrets is very sound, especially when you take into account the fact that he's only 235 points. That is kind of a steal.

I don't want a auto win list, rather I would like to field something that gives me options and some room for tactics. I feel that this list does just that.

I'm certainly gonna try this out and hope I too do good with it.

 Barnie25 wrote:
The reasoning behind fielding the Keeper of Secrets is very sound, especially when you take into account the fact that he's only 235 points. That is kind of a steal.

I don't want a auto win list, rather I would like to field something that gives me options and some room for tactics. I feel that this list does just that.

I'm certainly gonna try this out and hope I too do good with it.

You should. Just be smart. Daemons are kinda a faceroll army, but that makes it easy to forget about fundamentals. Keep the fundamentals, think everything through and enjoy the list man. Not tons of people play it this way, and my circus lists started last year as all tzeentch. Since adding the slaanesh I've loved it. If you get iron arm on your slaanesh prince, there's nothing like 2d6 las cannon shots at flyers if you roll a 3 for your iron arm.

Yeah I'll admit the lash is great but against the high end comp stuff like ovesa star they don't shape up whereas Bleak'or and a balesword prince rule