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I'm looking to get something ranged for the army, something that could flank around and really be a nightmare for lights and infantry. I've always liked the concept of the Reeves, but I hear they are terrible. I hear they are over priced, they squish easily, they aren't powerful, and they're generally a trash unit. How bad could they be?? I suppose the biggest reason people don't take them is because Nyss Hunters, Woldstalkers and Bloodtrackers are cheaper and/or better.

However as good as these other units are, the Bloodtrackers need to fully commit to a target because of their short range (meaning, they will get the job done, but may not survive the work), Woldstalkers are weak, and Nyss Hunters ... well Nyss Hunters are incredible, but whatever. The Reeves all have Combined Ranged Attack, which is great, and they also have Snap Fire, which is great vs light infantry. The Nyss have this as long as their character leader is living, but no Snap Fire, so despite being lethally accurate, they are bound to a ROF of 1.

Aaaa, I can't decide! I can picture the Reeves just melting a unit of light infantry, and nuking solos. Both units are going to get clobbered in melee, but the Nyss can at least make an initial charge and use Weapon Master to do some damage before they die. I don't know, I think both Nyss and Reeves were designed to take on medium to light targets, but the Reeves have the extra shots to slaughter every last model, whereas the Nyss Hunters are reliable with each shot, but may not have enough arrows to finish the job ...

I can't do it. I can't decide. I really like the challenge of polishing up a terrible unit, I love a good puzzle like that, and maybe that's reason enough right there ... I just wonder how much I'll regret it.

Thanks for you advice! Much appreciated.

They have several problems.

1) No stealth.

This puts their survivability way below Blood Trackers, who also have Reform/Quick Work if you take Nuala. Blood Tracker range isn't that much less than the Reeves if you take into consideration the Reform move.

2) No Prey. Prey makes the Trackers even more powerful at range and it speeds them up.

3) No melee ability at all, while Blood Trackers and Nyss can actually kill stuff thanks to prey or weapon master.

4) They need to CRA to reliably kill stuff, which means they can't take full advantage of Snap Fire.


If you want a ranged unit that isn't Bloodtrackers or Nyss, I'd look at the Tharn Bloodpack. They have less shots overall but more powerful shooting(especially since they have access to boosts) They also have decent melee stats as well as Assault and Battery. Circle doesn't really have trouble killing infantry, they need their shooting to be able to damage medium/heavy infantry and dent jacks/beasts.

The Bloodpack is also an underused unit, but unlike the Reeves there is actually potential.

Good question. You might think not having used Reeves might disqualify me from writing a forum post about them, but I'm going to do it anyway.

The main unit they get compared to is the Nyss Hunters. It's an easy comparison because the full unit of Reeves is a hefty 10 points, the same as the Nyss Hunters, and they're very similar units to begin with.

The first place the Nyss Hunters get off better is their RAT. Reeves are a horrible RAT 5, which means they miss everything in the universe. The dream way of dealing with this is the rolling CRA, where you make a CRA, it kills something and triggers Snap Fire, and then you make a new CRA using the Snap Fire attack as a secondary, so your unit ends up doing 9 CRAs. The obvious problem is with a RAT on the CRA of 7 you can still miss.

The second place is their defensive stats. Reeves have balanced DEF and ARM, and people generally seem to agree that's inferior to having one higher and the other lower, which is what you get with the very high natural defense of the Nyss Hunters.

Then, lastly, the Nyss Hunters are all melee weaponmasters with a higher power than the Reeves have in melee. And they're a bit faster, too.

To make the Reeves a sensible choice you'd probably want to get some benefit from them being Friendly Faction. Morvahna would be an obvious choice. Her epic version could give them concealment (which could have Camouflage if you take the Reeve Hunter and put it with them, though that's another two points) and she can let them reroll to keep the Snap Fire cascade going if that's important to you. Not sure what other neato things you could do with them.

Oh geez, the Blood Pack? I've never been able to make them work, largely because of the lack of Hunter. I think s/he'd be better off trying to make the Reeves work than the Blood Pack.

Thanks! Great responses, thank you. I get it, the Reeves are terrible, and I'm not just saying that, you made some really good points.

I've always been a big fan of the Bloodtrackers, and Grey Templar made some good points regarding their usefulness. I love that the Bloodtrackers are stealth, fast and weapon master (with reach i think?) ... they can make a really strong alpha strike. Alternatively, they could set up a really good flank attack. Legion would easily roast them, but most other armies would struggle to counter the Bloodtrackers.

I think Bloodtrackers are the answer, a solid unit, and still an interesting challenge. Maybe Nyss Hunters eventually, they seem very good. Someday I'll get Reeves, after I own everything else, ha!

Thanks again.

The Bloodtrackers are weapon master on their thrown spears, which is unusual as most weapon masters are on melee weapons but they're on a ranged weapon.

I have not used reeves but I have used blood trackers numerous times. While they do have low range, their weapons hit fairly hard and they are very fast which seems to fit what you are looking for better than reeves. Trackers can cover 17" with nuala and running but you need to keep them spread out to avoid AOE. I think Nuala is really critical not just for the added abilities but also for her leadership score which I seem to recall is much higher than the base unit.

I have heard of people using Reeves and Warwolves in eMorvhana lists, reviving the wolves near enemy casters then using a CRA to tag the caster, allowing the wolves a free charge even after being revived.

Not sure how effective it is though, as eMorv has many tricks that work.

I use Reeves, although they are not as effective as the often transplanted Nyss, I like them.

People see them as a waste of points, and they are honestly not eMorvanaha grants them buffs IF you take the hunter solo he grants camouflage, plus her Fog of War.

To make them usefull you need to take the UA and the solo.

That said they often appear in my Kaya lists simply because I like them.

 Maddermax wrote:
I have heard of people using Reeves and Warwolves in eMorvhana lists, reviving the wolves near enemy casters then using a CRA to tag the caster, allowing the wolves a free charge even after being revived.

Not sure how effective it is though, as eMorv has many tricks that work.

The trick is fantastic. I hate eMorvahna so much.

 CaptObvious wrote:
...However as good as these other units are, the Bloodtrackers need to fully commit to a target because of their short range (meaning, they will get the job done, but may not survive the work), ...

It shoudl be noted that this depends. Due to Reform with the UA, Bloodtrackers actually have an effective 10" zone they can be from things they throw at. Due to Prey and Weaponmaster on the javelins, they hit much harder and more accurately than a Reeve individaully (a single Bloodtracker with Prey = a three-man CRA from Reeves, and the damage roll is POW 11 + 3d6 instead of POW 13 + 2d6, which tends to swing higher). Stealth against counter-attacks, and being faster and better in melee if they get caught all put Bloodtrackers in favor over Reeves to be honest. With Nuala and being the same points, this doesn't help things there. This puts them really in favor of warlocks who can buff them, as they go a bit bananas there out. Morvahna1 can keep them pratically immortal. Baldur1 buffs their damage and protects them from blast damage. Either Krueger likes naything. And Mohsar does great wtih them via Mirage and Curse of Shadows damage-buffing.

 CaptObvious wrote:
...Woldstalkers are weak, ...

How so? A single Woldstalker has RAT 6, which is higher than the Reeves. They hit at POW 12, and go up from there. Like Bloodtrackers, they have a "hit and fade" range that totals to 13", putting htem about where Reeves are when they fire. In fact, Woldstalkers have a potentially longer range due to the flexible nature of Zephyr. And due to Concerted Fire, they can start ripping heavies apart. And while Bloodtrackers can fight, Zephyr often just lets Woldstalkers leave combat and shoot what tried to engage them in the face. Call to Sacrifice also has funny end-game potential with tarring up zones in scenario play. For the same cost you get the same amount of shots too. This also tends to in the end favor Woldshrimp with other warlocks that wouldn't normally like Bloodtrackers as much. Thi sis why they're popular with Kromac (get out of the way while still doing work) either Baldur and either Krueger.

 CaptObvious wrote:
... and Nyss Hunters ... well Nyss Hunters are incredible, but whatever. The Reeves all have Combined Ranged Attack, which is great, and they also have Snap Fire, which is great vs light infantry. The Nyss have this as long as their character leader is living, but no Snap Fire, so despite being lethally accurate, they are bound to a ROF of 1.

The thing as noted already is to get Snap Fire, you are often CRAing, which puts you back into the "even" with the above stuff but also losing-out on Snap Fires. Nyss have +1 RAT, MAT, SPD, and CMD, +2 DEF and only suffer in ARM and the ability to lose CRA. On top of this they have P+S 9 Weaponmasters words instead of P+S 8 bayonets. It is not just that Nyss are better, they're ludicrously better and take buffs Circle often can give to Reeves just as well. Circle has no real ranged support, so rarely wants a shooting unit that needs it. Nyss don't get that, but benefit from Curse of Shadows both in melee and shooting, can be Occulted and can be Lightning Tendriled. It does a lot to hurt Reeves as there's a bit of sheer superiority of the Nyss option save Faction bonuses, which are very rare in mattering on Reeves.

 CaptObvious wrote:
Aaaa, I can't decide! I can picture the Reeves just melting a unit of light infantry, and nuking solos. Both units are going to get clobbered in melee, but the Nyss can at least make an initial charge and use Weapon Master to do some damage before they die. I don't know, I think both Nyss and Reeves were designed to take on medium to light targets, but the Reeves have the extra shots to slaughter every last model, whereas the Nyss Hunters are reliable with each shot, but may not have enough arrows to finish the job ...

As noted again, RAT 5 means that the extra shots are more or less used to fuel CRAs. And against the targets you mention (light infantry), POW 10 v. POW 12 is often moot, while Woldstalkers and Bloodtrackers threaten warjacks, which Nyss also do on a charge.

 CaptObvious wrote:
I can't do it. I can't decide. I really like the challenge of polishing up a terrible unit, I love a good puzzle like that, and maybe that's reason enough right there ... I just wonder how much I'll regret it.

Thanks for you advice! Much appreciated.

All of this gets tossed out with Morvahna2, weirdly.

She provides Concealment to everything. Which means the Reeve's Hunter rule matters in not neutring your own shooting. Scales of Fate, her Feat, and Inviolable Conviciont only care about Faction, so she can't be bothered with Nyss. War Wolves synergize great wtih her feat. And on top of that, Scales of Fate make sure your shots hit more often and kill more reliably. SHe lights them up like nothing else in the Faction really. But I feel really only with her is it where that happens.

And stuff.

 malfred wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:
I have heard of people using Reeves and Warwolves in eMorvhana lists, reviving the wolves near enemy casters then using a CRA to tag the caster, allowing the wolves a free charge even after being revived.

Not sure how effective it is though, as eMorv has many tricks that work.

The trick is fantastic. I hate eMorvahna so much.

I always feel odd using eMorv as they are several people using the same list. Just for those tricks.

I'm tempted to get a new faction just so there is not another circle army people groan at.

 Maddermax wrote:
I have heard of people using Reeves and Warwolves in eMorvhana lists, reviving the wolves near enemy casters then using a CRA to tag the caster, allowing the wolves a free charge even after being revived.

Not sure how effective it is though, as eMorv has many tricks that work.

I've heard of the trick as well, but with people using the Reeve Hunter solo instead.

migooo wrote:

 malfred wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:
I have heard of people using Reeves and Warwolves in eMorvhana lists, reviving the wolves near enemy casters then using a CRA to tag the caster, allowing the wolves a free charge even after being revived.

Not sure how effective it is though, as eMorv has many tricks that work.

The trick is fantastic. I hate eMorvahna so much.

I always feel odd using eMorv as they are several people using the same list. Just for those tricks.

I'm tempted to get a new faction just so there is not another circle army people groan at.

If you are my opponent, I will hate anything you play.

Just saying

 malfred wrote:

migooo wrote:

 malfred wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:
I have heard of people using Reeves and Warwolves in eMorvhana lists, reviving the wolves near enemy casters then using a CRA to tag the caster, allowing the wolves a free charge even after being revived.

Not sure how effective it is though, as eMorv has many tricks that work.

The trick is fantastic. I hate eMorvahna so much.

I always feel odd using eMorv as they are several people using the same list. Just for those tricks.

I'm tempted to get a new faction just so there is not another circle army people groan at.

If you are my opponent, I will hate anything you play.

Just saying

Oh now it's ON!