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I just got my first autarch. He has the warp jump generator and the fusion gun. was wondering what melee weapon to give him? as well as the merits of all the options

Shard of Khaine
Firesaber
Scorpian chainsword
powerweapon.

the chainsword and power weapon im not to worried about, its the shard and firesaber i am most currious about.

thanks dakka

If you can play Iyanden, there is a celestial Lance that might serve you well. Iyanden relics are just better.

Depends a lot on how you want to play him. Is he deep striking with spiders? Do you want to try and get your spiders into cc? If the answer is no, do you even need a melee weapon?

i thought Iyanden was just if you wanted to run lots of wraith??

i don't normally Deep strike but i may start trying it, since i got more Reservable stuff now. and yes i want to get into CC with him. possibly with a spider exacrch too.

Celestial Lance is garbage. It kills stuff you can kill with a regular Laser Lance(unless it's a TEQ, in which case what the hell are you doing assaulting it with your Autarch and not shooting at it with all your Shuriken and Monofilament weaponry?) and if it actually kills something big and scary, you end up killing a few of your guys as well. It'd be a perfect weapon for a Solitaire, but since you can't have both the Mantle and the Lance, that is out of the window. I fielded it a few times, since it seemed good at first. Every time it has either done nothing or blown into my face. Don't forget, it's only S8 in shooting, in CC, it's only S6, just like the regular Laser Lance.

Soulshrive(Iyanden) is nice and can go up to S10, as it works very similar to the DE Archon soultrap. But usually you don't have time to build it up, as it can take a while to get going(starts at S3).

Firesabre is alright, but nothing to write home about.

Shard of Anaris is the only really superb relic and it's not because of it's stats only. The biggest selling point of the Shard is that it turns your Shard-wielding character AND any squad he's joined Fearless. It means Fearless Seercouncil, Fearless Beaststar(DE) Fearless Shining Spears, Fearless Warp Spiders...you get the idea. It's also brutal in a challenge against anything big and scary, as it causes ID on any unsaved wound, and it has rending. With 5 attacks, you have a very good chance of killing anything that isn't EW before it has a chance to strike back. Always take Banshee Mask for that reason(With I6, Banshee Mask ensures you go first even against Avatar of Khaine or a DP).

So I'd rate the CC relics in this order:

Shard of Anaris
Soulshrive
Firesabre
Celestial Lance

Araenion is dead on. Celestial lance is actually worse than the regular star lance a shining spear exarch gets, which is less than half the cost. The soulshrieve is good for the cost, and good for munching through rank and file. If you want to hunt big nasty monsters or HQ's, go for the shard(plus fearless)

Think of the firesaber as a power sword with +1 strength and soul blaze. The wildfire effect is really just fluff, and probably won't ever come up. For the price, the shrieve is worth it every time.

I would expand on what Araenion said and ALWAYS take a banshee mask. Even if your going with a laughingtaurch, you will always strike first wearing the mask(barring a few things like whip coils and those seeker of slannesh thingys). Since the -5Int happens to your enemies, your squad can benefit from it too. It helps should you be leading shining spears or warp spiders who lack grenades. Even at I1, with -5 I most everything will be right there with you.

The reason I suggest looking at a relic Lance is that it can serve the job of both a fusion gun, and a cc weapon. Take a pistol/knife to give him a second attack and one weapon does 2 jobs.

Generally, the eldar relics are not very good. Fearless is not particularly impressive. The autarch is already Ld 10. You make maybe 2 moral checks in a game (usually much less) on a unit. You already have an 85% chance of passing both. Is 15% more really an improvement? Banking on rending in a challenge is assuming you are going to be fighting multi-wound models with no invun and no EW. Not a lot of those. The shard can be dangerous but I am not so sure it is +40pt dangerous.

Banshee mask requires the target unit not be immune to fear and fail a morale check, and be as fast as the eldar to be useful. Again, not many things fit this bill.

Putting him with spiders to make full use of his pack focuses him on things spiders can consider cc against, which is pretty much MEQ. If that's the case, a power sword is probably sufficient.

The mantle is a gambit. Might be fun but don't trust your warlord on it.

Bottom line, I like bikes over jump generators. I use my spiders to attack vehicles, not troops. You are crossing streams for what the unit usually does. I am generally leery spending a lot of points on those choices.

Eldar relics, like the vehicle upgrades, are very situational. We don't have a Shield Eternal equivalent, that basically goes on every CM in any SM army since the codex dropped.

What we do have are ways to make our HQ fit our army better. Mantle is amazing on a Farseer Warlord, for instance, as he doesn't need to be up the field to be useful and is easy to hide against Ignores Cover weapons.

Shard is amazing if you have a unit that benefits from it. The point of Fearless isn't about failing a random morale check on LD10, it's about ignoring CC results and being immune to certain effects.

What's that about Banshee Mask and immunity to fear? Banshee Mask works on every model with initiative in the game, no morale checks needed. And for 5 points, it's amazing.

The reasoning behind Celestial Lance doubling up as a Fusion gun is actually the same reasoning I had when I was fielding it. It doesn't work that way. Fusion Gun is ALWAYS worth paying 10 points for: AP1 vs AP2, 2d6 AP vs d6 and +6" range(it means a lot when you're just short of 6" of AV10). Banshee Mask and Fusion Gun are always on my Autarchs.

Agreed about the Spiders. I'd much rather put him on a jetbike, even with Mantle, than keep him with Spiders, since you could also lose your Autarch just by using your Warp Jumpe Generators. It's a small chance, but it really sucks when it happens and you can bet it will happen in the worst possible moment.

Dessorag wrote:
The reason I suggest looking at a relic Lance is that it can serve the job of both a fusion gun, and a cc weapon. Take a pistol/knife to give him a second attack and one weapon does 2 jobs.

Generally, the eldar relics are not very good. Fearless is not particularly impressive. The autarch is already Ld 10. You make maybe 2 moral checks in a game (usually much less) on a unit. You already have an 85% chance of passing both. Is 15% more really an improvement? Banking on rending in a challenge is assuming you are going to be fighting multi-wound models with no invun and no EW. Not a lot of those. The shard can be dangerous but I am not so sure it is +40pt dangerous.

Banshee mask requires the target unit not be immune to fear and fail a morale check, and be as fast as the eldar to be useful. Again, not many things fit this bill.

The celestial lance does not serve the role of a fusion gun, it is a blast pistol. In melee, it is a laser lance with AP2. Spirit shatter is just a gimmick and is liable to kill more of your own models in combat than your opponents. A melta gun has a 12" range, and AP1. It also has the melta rule, meaning at the same range the celestial lance must be to fire, it is more effective at penetrating armor and inflicting subsequent damage(AP1 fusion, ap2 lance). Other than AP2, a laser lance costs less than a 3rd of the price and is basically the same melee weapon. It is also only powerful if you charge with it, and for one turn only. All of the other named weapons are always using their special rules. A shard means your autarch is S5 with a rending weapon at all times. The soulshrieve is always master crafted AP2, with the ability to be very strong. Even the effing firesaber is S4 ap3 with soul blaze...

Fearless is a big deal for a jetbike unit. No, it is a HUGE deal. Sure, your Ld10, but you can't go to ground anyways since your on bikes, so no downside. At Ld10, it is unlikely to break, but you CAN, and if you do, going back 3d6 sucks. Sucks more if you fail again, or even if you rally that is another turn you can't do a damn thing with your expensive unit. Add in all the psychic powers that force morale checks, pinning, and fear and yes, fearless is a big deal for an autarch in a squad. What happens if you get stomped in a combat? If you lost by a few wounds you are now a low enough Ld where failing is a real possibility. Maybe you break away(with I6 probably will) but if your swept, there goes your big bad unit and possibly your warlord.
A fleshbane weapon with rending and instant death will pull weight in a challenge. On the charge, it is a solid three wounds, so long as one gets through the target is dead. Sure, it is no match for abaddon, Lysander or any other super CC tank which costs substantially more than the autarch(and the autarch has no business fighting). Against rank and file, S5 rending is pretty nice.

The banshee mask does not work that way at all. It is a solid -5 modifier to enemy initiative on the charge. This means your autarch will ALWAYS go first(again, barring whip coils,seeker of slannesh toys and those other things you might see once in a while). Going first is a big deal, a HUGE deal for challenges(even if you take the crappy celestial stick). Clearly, you also failed to consider the possibility that this -5 initiative modifier can benefit anybody else in the combat. Shining spears, warp spiders and wraith units all lack grenades, meaning they will be I1 when they charge through/into terrain. With the mask, you can charge your shining spears or other non grenade unit into a unit with I6 or less and you will strike at the same time. Without the mask, your autarch can make some attacks, then the squad stomps back before your models can strike. To top it all off, this insanely useful piece of headgear only costs 5 bones, and the only other alternatives are no hat or mandiblasters. The mask may only come into play once every couple of games, but seriously how are those 5 points a waste? Granted, I have seen arguments against the tau neuroweb jammer....

Editamn you Araenion and your ninja!

Get the shard, amazing weapon!

Absolutely slaughters in close combat. He is my HQ hunter and only once has he failed at that job. No matter what unit, what other gear he has and so on he always carries a shard with him.

The fire blade is useless. I think.

 Dr. Serling wrote:
Editamn you Araenion and your ninja!

Haha, my pleasure, Serling! Though in all honesty you did a much more thorough job explaining it.

So, running the numbers, it looks like the thing a shard autarch losses too is TEQ. Which, when breaking that down, is not all that many threats. Daemon princes and chaos Lords are more likely 3+, some necron might get you and mega armor nobz probably get you. This assumes 5 attacks and you going first(likely there regardless of headgear).

Eternal warrior sinks this completely. But, barring that, you win more than you lose.

What I dislike is the probability is heavily based on their armor save. That's the main thing that matters. Which means I have near the same chance of losing to a chaos biker Lord as a marine sergeant with a power fist.

I have also been confusing Fear with the Banshee mask. To many attempts to make banshees work, I swore off the whole shrine.

Hahah! I know how you feel, I had 20 of them when the codex hit, sold the entire lot just because I couldn't stand to look at them. It's such a shame that the incredibly fluffy Aspect gets this treatment. I had really hoped for an improvement in there.

for those of you who have said about spider in CC benefit from the banshee Autarch. what about running an autarch and then detaching him to go assaulty on his own??

my model TECHNICALLY has mandiblasters but most of the poeple i play with are uber cool and understanding.