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Reading another post about Kharn the Betrayer and models that hit on a 2+ in CC made me think of this.

Would it help address the balance of shooting vs assault if models with high weapon skills could re-roll if they miss in the same way as models with high BS do when shooting (i.e. hit on a 2+ with a 6+ re-roll if they miss)?

 rohansoldier wrote:
Reading another post about Kharn the Betrayer and models that hit on a 2+ in CC made me think of this.

Would it help address the balance of shooting vs assault if models with high weapon skills could re-roll if they miss in the same way as models with high BS do when shooting (i.e. hit on a 2+ with a 6+ re-roll if they miss)?

No, Assault To hit values are generally pretty reasonable. Even a bloodthirster will take a hit eventually if enough guardsmen stick him with their lasguns, and a guardsman will outsmart that same blood thirster once in a while - or just get lucky.

Fluff wise, the enemy does get to parry/ block/ defend so it wouldn't fit with that. But i agree a change would be nice.

Having a WS8 monster and WS4 marine still only 3s and 4s is a little annoying. It feels like the WS8 monster isn't any better in hand to hand than a WS5 troop.

The table just needs a little rearranging imo.

 eskimo wrote:
Fluff wise, the enemy does get to parry/ block/ defend so it wouldn't fit with that. But i agree a change would be nice.

Having a WS8 monster and WS4 marine still only 3s and 4s is a little annoying. It feels like the WS8 monster isn't any better in hand to hand than a WS5 troop.

The table just needs a little rearranging imo.

well then how about we say if your WS is such that your opponent hits you on 5's, you hit him on twos?

So a marine will be hit on twos by skulltaker, DP and Blood Thirsters, but not by normal heralds.

Yes, Scipio, I think that would work.

Simpler than my idea too!

 rohansoldier wrote:
Yes, Scipio, I think that would work.

Simpler than my idea too!

Yay I helped.

I've always felt that WS should matter more. I agree with the above that it is dumb that really high WS monsters only ever hit on 3s, and always get hit on at least 5s.

I might go with Higher WS hits on 3s, if you double opponent you hit on 2s

Then Defensively Equal or lower hits on 4s, double hits on 5s, Double +2 hits on 6s.

Breng77 wrote:
I've always felt that WS should matter more. I agree with the above that it is dumb that really high WS monsters only ever hit on 3s, and always get hit on at least 5s.

I might go with Higher WS hits on 3s, if you double opponent you hit on 2s

Then Defensively Equal or lower hits on 4s, double hits on 5s, Double +2 hits on 6s.

How about we not screw with the current system that much, because that change is unneeded.

The current formula for hitting on 5's if your WS is less than half (so your WS x 2 +1 =< attacker's WS). Otherwise you hit on 4's. That much doesn't need to change.

What was suggested was that if you're hit on 5's, you hit on 2's (assuming majority WS value hits you on 5's.) this means you only need to remember the one formula and it's a nice easy conditional statement.

I.e; If you are hit on 5's then you will hit on 2's.

The issue I have with that is that in general it still makes high WS (except 9 and 10) largely a non-factor. Why shouldn't a WS 8 character hit a tactical marine on 2s? It also allows for Low toughness characters to be more durable in combat if they have high WS. I'm not suggesting that High Ws characters be invincible or anything but take the example of a blood thirster against IG, as it stands now if they take Krak grenades will put almost as many wounds on the thirster as he does to them. It is really not a huge change that I'm putting in there it ammounts to the following.

Marines hit WS10 on 6s in close combat (so all of like 2 models in the game.) and hit WS 8 on 5s (which is slightly worse than now.)

IG hit WS8+ on 6s and WS 6 on 5s so slightly worse. (but not very many models with WS 8)

Tau with WS 2 hit marines on 5s, and WS6 on 6s. But this balances some of their overwatch crazyness.

Furthermore it only really matters in a few cases: Challanges, individual models. The rest of the time you hit on majority WS...so not a huge thing.

The way I look at it is that it makes single CC models more viable, an eversor assasin could live for a round of combat against a tacitcal squad, or possibly a blob squad. Challenges become worse against High WS models (just like they should.)

I like the idea but this change wouldn't help out the shooting/assault balance at all.

The unfortunate state of things is that when you actually make it to combat you only want to kill your enemy just enough so as to not kill them outright and stay locked in combat. Making combat rolls stronger would guarentee you kill more and then get killed in the next shooting phase.

Winning combat isn't the issue, it's getting there that's a problem.

 Madcat87 wrote:


Winning combat isn't the issue, it's getting there that's a problem.

For sure. But we just don't like having high weapon skills mean not much at all. WS8 is a big stat that essentially isn't a big gain.

The people who designed that WS skill chart clearly haven't been in a fething fight

Being able to hit reliably on 2+ with BS5 but getting nothing but 3+/5+ with WS10 is total nonsense