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Ok, so I've had people telling me that eventually my positive feelings toward GW would change and they'd see me on the Warmachine tables. I would laugh, they would glare in a very serious manner, I would get uncomfortable, then we would part ways. And it happened. I just bought the rulebook and I've been pouring through it and reading online advice and strategies for new players. I'm by no means tournament-level, nor will I probably ever be, and I'm totally fine with that.

I apologize for the lengthiness of the questions, when I get excited I tend to ramble.

To clarify beforehand, he really likes Khador, and I really like a few factions, none of which are Menoth.

On to my questions:
Should I get the Khador battle box or the two-player battle box? I'm not really into Menoth, but it would be a quick and cheap second army and give an extra unit ($30 value) for the faction he wants to play. Plus, the mini rulebook and dice are a bonus. He's pretty dead-set on Khador after we went over a few of the different factions. He loves (most to least) the Warcaster Sorscha, Heavy Jacks, Widowmakers and thinks the Shocktroopers are incredible looking, but is discouraged that they were put as not so great on the advice threads I've read. Plus it comes with the travel rulebook and some extras that seem decent.

Also, would it be better for me to just start playing as Menoth so I have something on the table to play with right away and buy into another army once I know the game a bit better? Or should I ignore the Menoth and at best put them up at the FLGS flea market coming up? I would love that we would both have starter boxes plus and extra unit for the cost of two starter boxes, but I'm just not really into the fluff or style from what I've seen of Menoth. Would it make more sense to buy him the battle box for Khador and do the same with the faction I want?

I guess that's what it comes down to. Should I focus more on monetary economy, the pieces that are proven to work well all-around, or the pieces I think look like fun with nice models to paint? Also, can I paint my Warjacks pink? Or will I get dirty looks because certain factions should be painted a certain way?

 Eraserparticles wrote:

On to my questions:
Should I get the Khador battle box or the two-player battle box? I'm not really into Menoth, but it would be a quick and cheap second army and give an extra unit ($30 value) for the faction he wants to play. Plus, the mini rulebook and dice are a bonus. He's pretty dead-set on Khador after we went over a few of the different factions. He loves (most to least) the Warcaster Sorscha, Heavy Jacks, Widowmakers and thinks the Shocktroopers are incredible looking, but is discouraged that they were put as not so great on the advice threads I've read. Plus it comes with the travel rulebook and some extras that seem decent.

Also, would it be better for me to just start playing as Menoth so I have something on the table to play with right away and buy into another army once I know the game a bit better? Or should I ignore the Menoth and at best put them up at the FLGS flea market coming up? I would love that we would both have starter boxes plus and extra unit for the cost of two starter boxes, but I'm just not really into the fluff or style from what I've seen of Menoth. Would it make more sense to buy him the battle box for Khador and do the same with the faction I want?

If you know you can recoup your investment on Menoth, I'd get the two-player box: the mini-rulebook is handy since that's another $35 if you want a rulebook for reference but don't necessarily care about the fluff/unit entries (at least as a game-table reference book). Is your friend going 50/50 with you on this, or are you buying it on your own?

I guess that's what it comes down to. Should I focus more on monetary economy, the pieces that are proven to work well all-around, or the pieces I think look like fun with nice models to paint?

Depends: how much do you want to build around a unit you like? Some units are good all-around, while others will require specific support to shine. It's hard to say without knowing what faction(s) you're interested in, or what playstyle appeals to you though. Also depends on how much you value the hobby aspect vs. table top performance as well.

Also, can I paint my Warjacks pink? Or will I get dirty looks because certain factions should be painted a certain way?

Nobody cares about paint schemes in my experience: do what tickles your fancy.

If you don't want Menoth, and don't have a player wanting to start it, I wouldn't get the 2 player set.

No point in getting something you won't use.

Should I focus more on monetary economy, the pieces that are proven to work well all-around, or the pieces I think look like fun with nice models to paint?

The game is balanced to the point where just about any unit can be used competitively. The caveat is that not every combination of units will work. Chocolate = good. Hamburger = good. Chocolate hamburger =/= good.

The general recommendation is that you get some of the more popular stuff at first and then branch out. So for Khador you'd get the battle box and a unit of Widowmakers. Add Widowmaker Marksman. Get a Spriggan heavy kit to magnetize. Pick up a unit of Winterguard with the UA and Kovnik Joe. And then you can branch out to what strikes your fancy.

Any particular units which you like the look of?

Also, can I paint my Warjacks pink?

Yes.

Or will I get dirty looks because certain factions should be painted a certain way?

Nah, just odd looks.

People often have their own color scheme. My Khador(just started them myself) are being painted in Wehrmacht colors. My Menoth is a dull red with gold trim. and my Skorne are black and gold.

Awesome, thank you for the replies!

So I guess my main concern is I have no desire to flesh out the Menoth past the 2-player battle box. I wouldn't mind playing them if they can hold up out of the box with the extra unit of Cinerators they tossed in the box. I would just rather spend money on the army I want to use for the long-term and feel like this would just be used because it was there. The travel rulebook does look handy, but it would probably be his to reference more quickly than the large book that we might not drag out to every game. Yeah, I can see how poorly I phrased everything.

I'm interested in shooting and spells mostly. And some of the sleeker looking Jacks. I'm looking around to see the army that best suits that, but I'm just not sure yet. Another reason I'm considering the two-player, so I can have the Menoth to play with against different armies until I can figure out which one does the kind of stuff I like to do the most. I love the look of some of the snipers, mercenaries, and Retribution of Scyrah stuff, but don't really see anybody playing that stuff. It would be great to be able to play right away and then pick up other armies as I can down the road. I rushed in with most of my first armies and didn't like them after actually playing them, so I'm kind of compensating for that ahead of time.

Well, Cinerators are a subpar unit compared to Bastions who do the same thing but better for the same cost.

So what you're saying is the two-player battle box extra units aren't great? Would it make more sense to ignore the bonus items in the two-player box and pick up two one player boxes for the same price since the additional units in the two-player are not on par?

Well you can fairly easily convert the Cinerators into Bastions, swap sword and shield for a halberd. And Shock Troopers are decent in the right list.

But out of the box, it's seeming like it makes very little sense to get the two-player at this point since I have Prime MKII and don't want the Menoth. I think we're just going to get two different battle boxes and we'll add units as it makes sense.


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Thanks for the help, guys!


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(Weird, I just meant for a smiley face, not a laughing 40k ork).

Smilies default into Orkmoticons if there is one.

As someone who picked up the 2 player battlebox...I would suggest against it if you're not wanting Menoth. Especially if you've already got a rulebook.

On the flip side...been having fun playing my Menoth from the 2-player list...but haven't made use of my Cinerators and instead got Zealots and a Choir.

One of the nice things about Warmachine vs WH40K is that you can start an army for relatively cheaply.

So I suggest choosing an army that you think you will like. And if you decide another one might be better later it is pretty easy to get a battlebox and a unit and play some games with them.

As a matter of fact, I don't know anyone who plays with any sort of regularity who doesn't have at least 2 factions. Myself, I have two main factions and 3 more that I can make 35 point lists with. My brother also has 2 main factions and 4 factions that he can probably put together a 35 point list in.

Just a couple question. How dead set is he set on that khador style? And 2 have you ever considered hordes? The big jacks and that's all style don't work for khador. They are infantry heavy. Have either of you looked at convergence. Got a friend that plays them and in a 35 point game ran iron mother, 4 heavy jacks, a light jack, and servitors. My other friend had khador and hated it and switched to legion of everblight. Hordes is a combatitable play style with them and the rules are slightly different but not much.

given the price, your buddy is better off buying the two player box if he likes Khador at all. It's $50 more then the starter box, includes shocktroopers, a rule book, and a small menoth force he can sell/trade.

Meaning, it's a good deal for anybody that likes even one of the factions. Better then splitting it for stuff you don't want.

That was my thought, Polonius.

Sell off the Menoth & get something different if he wants the Khador.

If your buddy wants to play Khador as Heavy 'Jacks + Man-o-Wars he's going to be dissapointed. Outside of specific edge cases for advanced players, that style is not viable. Full stop. Even in those edge cases with advanced players it edges into "Barely Passable" territory.

Heavy Metal Khador does not work. Period, end of story. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. He will be sad, he will lose, he will not win, he will lose, he will lose, he will lose, he will lose, he will lose every game badly.

If the only thing that appeals to your buddy in Warmahordes is 'Jack Heavy/Man-o-War Khador, he should not play Warmachine/Hordes. If anything else appeals to him even a little, he should play that.

STEP AWAY FROM THE KHADOR HEAVIES. STEP AWAY FROM THE KHADOR HEAVIES. They will hurt you emotionally, in ways even your absent father never could.

The sad thing is that it won't be obvious right away.

As a playstyle, it might work for while they're still learning the game. But then the opponents will learn how to beat it and then it will be at the point of no return.

I appreciate the advice. Yeah, we went with the Battlegroups. Counted a loss of one extra unit each, but that's not as important because I'm playing the faction I want now. He has the Battlegroup, Krovnik Joe, Infantry + 3 rockets, and Gorman (we also have 2 more Mercs that work for both of our armies).

He is having trouble with the heavy metal (wish I would have checked this post before now, long story) but that's why he grabbed the sea of blunderbuss and Joe to make them all tough. The merc was a bonus because we bought them from someone at game night tonight. I also picked up a few things for Scyrah that I'm really digging so far.

Honestly, the two warjacks in the Khador box are both great choices, and two warjacks isn't precisely heavy on them in the first place (even in Khador). They take a bit of fiddling to get right, mostly because their charge range is somewhat low before support.

I must be missing something. Is it a warcaster that boosts their charge? It might really help him out to get some speed behind those steam trains.

In a sense, yes. They still use their own allocated or gained Focus to charge, but many/most Khador casters can boost their speed in some way. For some casters it's Warjacks only, for others it's a straight up boost to movement or speed and others can give focus-free charge or similar.

I'm too noob to say exactly what caster does what, but I do know that those low speed sluggers can be surprisingly fast at times.

 Eraserparticles wrote:
I must be missing something. Is it a warcaster that boosts their charge? It might really help him out to get some speed behind those steam trains.

More Khador casters than not have some kind of single-target 'Jack buff like Boundless Charge, Superiority or the like. Usually by +2", some casters can really get them moving. While mobility can be a problem, the longer term issue for Khador 'Jacks is one of resources and versatility.

'Jacks take focus. Casters want to use focus for other things. Khador lacks for focus support, high FOC casters, and good 'Jack support. In addition Khador 'Jacks suffer from low to-hit values, being narrow, and having few efficient ways to generate more attacks. The Khador 'Jacks that see central pay in the faction (Spriggan, Behemoth, Beast-09) etc, tend to solve one or more of these problems on their own.

Contrast to Protectorate which has great 'Jack support, good focus support, a generous number of solid high FOC casters, multiple 'Jacks that can fuel themselves, 'Jacks that do work with low or no focus loads, and versatile multi-role 'Jacks and it becomes apparent the reason khador doesn't focus on 'Jack play is way more than a speed issue.

The new Khador Journeyman warcaster should also give the boys in red some options for running an extra jack for those who are interested.

Its going to be a while before they release the normal sculpts so they're available to anyone who didn't jump on the kickstarter.

 Mordekiem wrote:
The new Khador Journeyman warcaster should also give the boys in red some options for running an extra jack for those who are interested.

He's supposed to work very well with the new jack they get too.

I bought the faction deck for Scyrah and the kickstarter solo was added to that. I would just need a suitable temp model until they put one out.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its going to be a while before they release the normal sculpts so they're available to anyone who didn't jump on the kickstarter.[/quote
Rules are out. Easy to use an alt model till the real one comes out.

Shoot, I like to use alternate models anyways. Reaper and Wyrd both have some very cool models.

Also, I'm sure certain people will be selling extras from the Kickstarter.

Well yeah.

There are probably a bunch of people who ordered the entire set of Juniors with the intent to sell the ones for the other factions to other people.