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Rules as written says Objective Secured allows gargoyles to control an objective even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the objective.

So Denial units can stop the gargoyle from scoring. Just want to hear thoughts. Its pretty clear cut to be honest.

Consensus is definitely with that view.

edit***********

 mk2 wrote:
well I just got a hold of the actual rule and ti says enemy units need to have "objective secure" in order to contest. so no denial units can not deny the gargoyles

Suggest you re-read the rule. In your quote, replace enemy unit with enemy troops and you pretty much have it. It says that Objective secure gives the gargoyles control, even when troops are on the objective. BUT... if they're not troops, ie if they're fact attack or elites, then they can contest (but not control) the objective. (sorry, iPad is in use so can't quote entire rule).

You're correct Hivefleet, just remember that there are some mission that makes fast or heavies scoring. So the rule apply to them, if the it's that mission.

absolutely, in fact rather than "troops" I should have said "scoring unit. "

Full rule: "A unit with [Objective Secured] controls Objective Markers even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the Objective Marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule."

The rule says a unit with OS controls an objective, there is no provision for anything to deny that.

Compare that to the rule on p.123:
You control an objective if there is at least one model from one ofyour scoring units, and no models from enemy denial units, within 3" of it.

Note the last phrase... that phrase does not exist in the Objective Secured rules. There are no exceptions listed for the Gargs being able to control an objective.

Agree with coredump, it makes sense that if you still score it with enemy scoring units that close you would control it vs denial units too

coredump wrote:
The rule says a unit with OS controls an objective, there is no provision for anything to deny that.

Compare that to the rule on p.123:
You control an objective if there is at least one model from one ofyour scoring units, and no models from enemy denial units, within 3" of it.

Note the last phrase... that phrase does not exist in the Objective Secured rules. There are no exceptions listed for the Gargs being able to control an objective.

That last phrase is only a reminder of what a denial unit does. The rules for denial units say that they prevent units from holding objectives (and it does not specify that those units must be scoring units). So the phrase you are referring to is redundant. The writers just wanted to remind the reader that denial units exist.

The RAW for OS does not mention denial units, and therefore the rules for denial units still apply to units with OS because the rules for denial units apply to ALL units that can control an objective (not just scoring units). The only exception is the one mentioned in OS, where scoring units (that USUALLY are also denial units) can't prevent a unit with OS from controlling an objective. This rule overrides the denial unit rule because they are scoring units and scoring units are specifically mentioned in the rule for OS.

RAI? Debatable... As a tyranid player I would play it as RAW to avoid an argument and because the dataslate is powerful enough with the RAW ruling. If an FAQ comes out saying that denial units can't prevent OS units from controlling an objective then I will gladly play it that way and have a printout of the FAQ ready for any questions my opponent has.

There's another thread on the front page of YDMC that concerns this issue too. I'm of the position that denial units can contest, for the reasons that Zimko has laid out.

Denial refers to units controlling objectives and not scoring units specifically, while OS only mentions scoring units cannot deny and fails to mention any other unit type.

Still immensely powerful considering gargs can jump on enemy objectives, or even DS near enemy objectives at the end of the game, and effectively steal them regardless if they have a scoring units on the marker.

Terminating this thread, as the other one is more active - let's not fragment the discussion.