Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I have been brainstorming lately and came up with what I thought was a great 1850 point list. Unfortunately I forgot to input all the values in to my Xcel spreadsheet, so it was actually 2100 points. That explained real quick why ti was doing so well Ooops. So back to the drawing board. I have two list concepts both built around a juggerlord with spawn, a solid core of chaos marines, and two heldrakes, one with the hades and one with the baleflamer. Where I am having trouble deciding what to do is with the rest of the points.

List one fills the remaining points with a kitted out black mace prince.

Juggerlord – Juggernaut, Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, Gift, Mark of Khorne
CSM Daemon Prince – Mastery Level 3, Mark of Tzeentch, Black Mace, Spell Familiar, Gift of Mutation, Wings, Power Armor
10 x CSM, 2 x Plasmagun, Rhino
10 x CSM, 2 x Plasmagun, Rhino
10 x CSM, 2 x Meltagun, Rhino, Dirge Caster
10 x CSM, 2 x Meltagun, Rhino, Dirge Caster
Heldrake with Hades
Heldrake with Baleflamer
5 x Chaos Spawn

List two takes the remaining points, adds a bike sorcerer to the spawn unit and also adds two maulerfiends.

Juggerlord – Juggernaut, Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, Gift, Mark of Khorne CSM
Sorcerer – Mastery Level 3, Chaos Bike, Sigil, Burning Brand, Spell Familiar,
10 x CSM, 2 x Plasmagun, Rhino
5 x CSM, 1 x Plasmagun, Rhino
10 x CSM, 2 x Meltagun, Rhino
10 x CSM, 2 x Meltagun, Rhino
Heldrake with Hades
Heldrake with Baleflamer
5 x Chaos Spawn
Maulerfiend with Magma Cutters
Maulerfiend with Lasher Tendrils

While list one has two extremely heavy hitters in the juggerlord and the prince, I actually feel that list two is stronger due to flexibility. The lord and sorcerer unit will get buffed by the sorcerer's powers, and late game the lord and sorcerer can split off to contest multiple objectives, join other units midgame, and help clear out combats taking place already. The maulerfiends are fun and do pretty well for me and can't be ignored. They are kind of a mixed bag in big guns never tire, since they aren't that hard to kill and give up victory points when they die. If they actually make it late game, then they can score, so that's a positive.

So with all that out of the way, which list would be harder for you to deal with and why?

the first one would be tuff,just make both heldraks with baleflames they are just to good,i like the 1st one the best,you kill cheap troops and you have enuff guns and deamon pronce to kill something hard.

Using the Hades is something that I have found extremely useful over time. It provides anti-air, light transport popping, and extra range over the baleflamer. The baleflamer is awesome, but a lot of times I don't need more help clearing infantry. I need to be able to deal with flying monstrous creatures and other fliers.
Of course the baleflamer is awesome, so that's why I run a second drake with it!

List 2 is better, though I'd personally prefer baledrakes.

Balesrakes and Dakkafiends would be my vote.

I would rather face the second list, I play Blood Angels.

because it doesn't have the Daemon Prince with wings which is very hard for my army to deal with and it has Mauler fiends which are easy to deal with with all the melta I pack in my lists.

Not sure what I would throw at your Spawn unit to stop it (probably Death Company in all honesty. Drowning in Str 5 attacks and Thunder Hammers make everything go away) and it'd be difficult fighting your two drakes with Storm Ravens. I usually bring two at 1850 so in a perfect world, I wouldn't be too far behind. But the addition of the Mace Prince would probably tip the scales in your favor.

The core of CSM doesn't bug me too much. Once I de-mech them (and four is hard, I grant you, but that's what Lascannons are for) they lose all mobility and I can pick them apart at my leisure. Especially once *my* Heldrakes come on from Outflank. The ones with Tracks and Turrets and Heavy Bolters instead of wings, maws and claws

Good input bocatt. Exactly what I'm looking for. Answered the question in detail and kind of confirms my thinking.

I play around making more lists than I can possibly play, but I enjoy doing it. So, of course I get messing around some more and think, "What if I drop the lord and spawn and replace that with 2 TriLas Predators and a unit of cultists instead? Or a couple of vindicators?"

So now, there's one huge assault threat in the prince, but there are still 40 CSM in transports grabbing objectives and controlling the board, and there are a couple of tanks in the back pumping out high strength firepower. Which would add to the de-meching problem.

Just brainstorming ideas. I got a lot of play time in this weekend and it got the thinking cap on squarely.