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I am relatively new to WH40k and have a question about the Dark Angels:

There seems to also of talk on forums that the DA stink and are not competitive. At first I did not like the look, but it has grown on me after I read the fluff.

So can you make a descent DA army? I have all the DA minis from Dark Vengeance and a Land Raider I have not built yet. Can I make a good list with this as a starting point? I have noticed that most army lists out there have only Deathwing or Revenwing, GW hints in the codex that a DW - RW mix can be very effective. They also reinforce this thought with the selections in the starter set. Thoughts?

I play Ravenwing and Deathwing. The reason they are the most played DA armies is that they have the most variation from a standard SM list, and the most character.

Deathwing is almost never competitive. People play it because terminators are cool.

Ravenwing is still competitive, despite Whitescars bikes appearing on the scene. You can find literally hundreds of threads comparing the two. Competitive lists center around either/both the bolter banner, and black knight spam. Remember you have PFG and prescience librarians.

I wouldn't normally mix the DW and RW lists though.

A normal DA list plays like a poor mans SM list. It has less special rules, worse prices and less special toys.

Its not all bad though. There is nothing stopping you from using your DA models with the SM codex, they are space marines after all. Build and paint them for the DA look, use them with the better rules.
I run my bikes as RW or Whitescars, depending on what list I want to play.

Hope that helps.

Belial can make low point games pretty beasty. As you scale up in points the DA start to look more bland. All bikes or all Terminators can work well against smaller or unprepared armies. Against a good TAC list, both have a tiny model count and are vulnerable, but they're fun and you either win or lose quick.

Outside of that, rough seas ahead. Be glad you aren't a Blood Angels player, and proxy as a successor chapter using white scars or iron hands. They are solid but not exceptional with two gimmicks.

Bikes definitely seem like the way to go with the DA...

The issue is to really utilize Dark Angel units, you need a ton of points. Going all in with any of the three "wings" as people refer to it means you often have things you can't NOT pay for sitting on your models, but splitting up your units into specialists between the three wings tends to leave your army very weak because as soon as anyone doesn't do their job, your whole strategy falls apart.

Ravenwing would be significantly more competitive if they were 21 points a dude instead of 27. Being forced to bring the teleport homers on every last dude is the killer.

Every last thing in the codex is overpriced compared to regular space marines. Black Knights are almost an attack bike a dude and are only 1 wound instead of 2 so they die quickly. Our terminators are significantly better than other terminators but it doesn't matter because terminators in general are just bad anyway. They have terrible shooting per points cost, and anyone with a Monstrous Creature will laugh as they kill your 50 point per guy models to shreds in the phase terminators should be best in.

We have better command squads (terminator/bike/power armor) than other guys, but we also don't have Honor Guard. Company Veterans are actually better than people give them credit for but still are just not worth bringing compared to Sternguard.

And out of all our unique toys, only 1 is worth bringing in a barebones Darkshroud. The Land Speeder Vengeance is a joke unit. It's 90 points more than a regular ol' Land Speeder but has the same profile, so it means you're literally paying 90 points for a large blast/heavy 3 plasma weapon. Terrible. Just terrible. The Dark Talon is actually pretty okay but the issue is it can only really go after infantry or Flying MCs and therefore defeats the purpose of most flying units. The Nephilim Jetfighter has maybe 70 points worth of weaponry on it and yet costs 180 points. In either case, you can bring cheaper (both point value in-game and in actual cash), more effective Storm Talons for Codex Marines.

The short of it is, our codex wasn't very well thought out for the actual workings of 6E. Games Workshop didn't really understand this edition of the game until AFTER Dark Angels came out which is why every codex since, even the much maligned Tyranids, is simply better.

ok, thanks for the info. I have not painted any minis yet so I think I will post them on the Swap page. Really too bad about the way GW rolled the DAs out. Does not matter how cool the fluff is when you get killed all the time. I still have my Orks, but I want an army that is more strategic. I might try and use the $$ from selling of my DA stuff and get some Chaos SM instead.

I have been quite successful with my DAs at 2000 points so far and really enjoyed the super tight games. They are by no means an easy win button but they have the tools. They are just priced a little too high for what they bring as compared to some other codices.

BUT one thing to consider is that there are other codices in its wheelhouse. Really only Tau, Eldar, Necrons and power builds from C:SM, should regularly defeat the other dexes. (I've already beaten Tau so that felt extra special)

If you like the army just stick it out. Codex and rules change all the time and its not as hard as people make it out to be. There are some codex that at the moment are really easy to play and because others aren't doesn't make them crappy. A mix of allies and a good round strategy can really push odds in your favor especially when opponents under estimate you.

 tinker wrote:
ok, thanks for the info. I have not painted any minis yet so I think I will post them on the Swap page. Really too bad about the way GW rolled the DAs out. Does not matter how cool the fluff is when you get killed all the time. I still have my Orks, but I want an army that is more strategic. I might try and use the $$ from selling of my DA stuff and get some Chaos SM instead.

Never sell minis!!!!! If it is one thing I've learned, you never ever sell minis, especially marines. Marines are marines are marines. "Counts as", baby.

Inkubas wrote:
If you like the army just stick it out. Codex and rules change all the time and its not as hard as people make it out to be. There are some codex that at the moment are really easy to play and because others aren't doesn't make them crappy. A mix of allies and a good round strategy can really push odds in your favor especially when opponents under estimate you.

Good point, I did not think about this. I have some older Steel Legion models I almost forgot about, might need to look in to adding some IG allies.

I am new and have only played 3 games. Last week, I beat a very experienced Tau player with my DW based army in a 1,500 point game.

We played scouring (I think). If that's the one with objectives that are mystery points until you cap them. It was an amazing game, but I found that the DW can withstand a lot of fire power, especially if you stick a SS or two up front.

I started from the DV box set (tactical marines and terminators), added some DW Knights, Land Raider to carry them, additional terminators, Belial, and a Devastator squad. I use the LR to attempt to get the Knights close enough to assault (with Belial). Deep striking the other terminators deep or near the LR due to Belial's homer.

I'm not competitive when playing and I'm in the hobby just to have fun. I pretty much got tabled my first two games, but you learn new tricks each time you play. It's all about having fun and I'm enjoying my DW based army.