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Fresno just got a Games Workshop store, and every one is a very excite! At the grand opening I had the opportunity to speak with a GW representative that helps open new stores etc. We were discussing Khorne Lord of Skulls and the Revenant. The conversation started because he overheard me tell my friend that the Khorne Lord of Skulls is a cool unit, but it seems like a cruel joke. I explained that the 888 points was obviously a ploy to play with the fluff of Khorne, but that the unit is not worth 888 points when compared to the other super-heavies. Now I know 888 isn't that terrible, but the Revenant is only 900, and for the extra 12 points you get a unit I consider to be at least twice as good. The GW representative affirmatively argued against this position, and I continued to disagree.

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

you're absolutly right, that said obviously the GW rep isn't going to say "yeah this model I sell is crap, order something off of forgeworld instead" he DOES have a "quota" to meet.

that said the lord of skulls certinly has it's up sides.

as the reverant basicly only fires large blasts, or a heavy 4 attack, it's ability to deal with swarms may be less then the lord of skulls depending on the situation, but yeah, that'd be pretty situational, and over all I'd MUCH perfer a reverant

"What's everyone's thoughts on this."

Don't take anything a GW employee says seriously. My local GW operator and I have a good relationship. I spend a substantial amount in his store, and am generally in there once a week; he's a great guy. However, he assured me CSM could take an Imp Knight as an ally, so I preordered one. I now have a shelf ornament, which is cool I guess. When I asked him 'wth bro?' - he said he was told in person, and in an email - that every army could take Knights as an ally. So he, a GW employee - was lied to by another GW employee. Or at the very least mislead (come the apocalypse allies).

I find it kinda funny that GW slime flows freely within the corporate structure. They aren't even straight with each other. That being said, my local GW operator is a genuinely good guy and I don't believe he intentionally mislead me.

Lesson learned though. I don't feel bad buying from ebay discounters now. GW obviously doesn't care about us, why should we afford them any consideration?

Honestly, I severely doubt that many units in this game are "cost appropriate" anymore, especially apocalypse units. Some were awesome back in the day, but really lack in the new age of Apoc/Escalation.
As for the lord of skulls, its feels like an over-glorified brass scorpion that gains strD CCW. Except it costs nearly 2x as much points wise. I'd rather take a scorpion any day honestly.

And on the whole "GW doesn't want you to buy forgeworld" comment, you realize they are the same company for all intents right?

StarHunter25 wrote:

And on the whole "GW doesn't want you to buy forgeworld" comment, you realize they are the same company for all intents right?

For the shareholders of the company, this is true. For employees of GW's brick and mortar store, it doesn't help them get more commissions so they most certainly do not want you buying Forgeworld.

In other words, GW brick and mortar stores suffer the same problem as any commissions based retailer does. They stop treating you like customers and start treating you like sources of income. It plagues the car industry, the telemarketing industry, etc. etc. It's an industry that requires no education to do, so often times attracts people desperate to make a good living. You can make a lot of money as a good commissions salesman, so there are always going to be unscrupulous types.

Don't ask a GW employee if unit X is better than unit Y.

As far as they're concerned, everything is awesome, and you probably need three in your army.

Before the update, (and his replacement,) there was a GW manager who was ademant that Hormogants (The assault ones) in a Mycetic Spore was a great unit. (In fact, he thought thay Hormogants were great in general.) He said it would do just as well, if not better, than the same quantities of Termagants.

The employee is a dishonest who just wants to sell the garbage model. It's a terrible unit that is worse in every relevant way compared to a Revenant or Warhound, it's just company policy that everything GW sells is awesome and you can never say anything bad about it.

 SRSFACE wrote:
In other words, GW brick and mortar stores suffer the same problem as any commissions based retailer does. They stop treating you like customers and start treating you like sources of income. It plagues the car industry, the telemarketing industry, etc. etc. It's an industry that requires no education to do, so often times attracts people desperate to make a good living. You can make a lot of money as a good commissions salesman, so there are always going to be unscrupulous types.

Except on top of the commission problem GW is actually competing with themselves. Their retail store competes with their website, their "core" company competes with their specialist division, their direct sales compete with their sales through independent stores, etc. It's like the people running the company have forgotten that their individual locations are just different cash registers for the same store and put everyone into this ridiculous "survival of the fittest" battle instead of maximizing overall sales.

 Peregrine wrote:

Except on top of the commission problem GW is actually competing with themselves. Their retail store competes with their website, their "core" company competes with their specialist division, their direct sales compete with their sales through independent stores, etc. It's like the people running the company have forgotten that their individual locations are just different cash registers for the same store and put everyone into this ridiculous "survival of the fittest" battle instead of maximizing overall sales.

That's a really good point!

Makes you wonder why they insist on "Games Workshop" and "Forgeworld" being two separate entities. You can buy various Ford-owned subsidiary cars at a Ford dealership, after all.

 SRSFACE wrote:
Makes you wonder why they insist on "Games Workshop" and "Forgeworld" being two separate entities.

Probably some legal or tax issue for the corporate structure, and brand identity for the separate websites. The separation wouldn't be a problem by itself, it only starts to hurt the company when you get GW's idiocy of having its employees act like all of GW's other cash registers are the enemy and need to be destroyed.

Well, the Khorne Lord of Skull is good for what it can do and the pt costs are okay. Just compare it with an Ork Stompa.

The Eldar Revenant Titan is another story, very cost effective for what it can achieve. Its a very fast murder machine able to destroy one or two superheavies each turn. It can also waste a full deathstar in one round. Nothing is safe from him due to its range and speed. In fact, its underpriced, 1200 to 1300 pts would be more appropriate.

I bought some Mandrakes a few months ago in a GWS and the guy gave me an awkward look and explained to me that they were terrible in game. I already knew this and wanted them for painting but it was the first time I'd ever seen a GWS employee talk down a miniature.

Back on topic: Yeah the comparison between these 2 is rediculous.

4++ Everything Save vs Nothing
34 AV Total vs 37 AV
BS 4 vs BS 3
2x2 SD AP2 Large Blast 60" range + S5 AP3 Heavy 4 24" range vs S8 AP3 Hellstorm + S8 AP3 Heavy 12 48" range
36" Movement vs 12"

12 points difference... You can spend even more points on the LoS for some other weapons but none of which compare to the Revenant.

Being the only model in game that can save against D class weapons should cost at least 100+pts.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the Khorne Lord of Skull is good for what it can do and the pt costs are okay. Just compare it with an Ork Stompa.

The Eldar Revenant Titan is another story, very cost effective for what it can achieve. Its a very fast murder machine able to destroy one or two superheavies each turn. It can also waste a full deathstar in one round. Nothing is safe from him due to its range and speed. In fact, its underpriced, 1200 to 1300 pts would be more appropriate.

Right.

The problem might be that the Revenant is underpriced, not that the Lord of Skulls is overpriced. I don't play with either, but I see a lot of people complaining about the Revenant being too good.

No idea how the Lord of Skulls compares to other, less powerful models though. I just wanted to emphasize wuestenfux 's post because it offers a different way to view the comparison.

It's like how for awhile people would compare all flyers to the Helldrake/Vendetta. If it wasn't as good as either of those, then the unit must not be worth fielding... yet people were complaining that the Heldrake and Vendetta were OP...