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Hello everyone, I recently attended a tournament (dark star gt in MN). The fellow player went 5-0 and thus winning him best general. Since, we were running similar list, we decided looked over each other's list after the tournament was over. That is when he started to tell me his "gameplan" of the day... one thing that struck me was his autrach.

So, his autrach had mantle of laughing god, shard of anaris, eldar jet bike, fusion gun, banshee mask. Now eveything seems ok until you read deeper in it...MoLG states "the bearer loses the independent character special rule, but gains hit&run, shroud and stealth, and re-roll failed cover saves." Now the shard during challenges give the bearer fleshbane, and insta-death. So he was running around Into combat challenging, kill the other characters, then leaving.

So the question: is this legal? Think about it, you lose Independent character rule, therefore you can't challenge becuase your not a character. Also, can that autrach even stand alone anymore because he does not have independent character rule?

What do you guys think?

XxBlackbirdxX1 wrote:
Hello everyone, I recently attended a tournament (dark star gt in MN). The fellow player went 5-0 and thus winning him best general. Since, we were running similar list, we decided looked over each other's list after the tournament was over. That is when he started to tell me his "gameplan" of the day... one thing that struck me was his autrach.

So, his autrach had mantle of laughing god, shard of anaris, eldar jet bike, fusion gun, banshee mask. Now eveything seems ok until you read deeper in it...MoLG states "the bearer loses the independent character special rule, but gains hit&run, shroud and stealth, and re-roll failed cover saves." Now the shard during challenges give the bearer fleshbane, and insta-death. So he was running around Into combat challenging, kill the other characters, then leaving.

So the question: is this legal? Think about it, you lose Independent character rule, therefore you can't challenge becuase your not a character. Also, can that autrach even stand alone anymore because he does not have independent character rule?

What do you guys think?

Independent Character != Character.

Character is a unit type, Independent Character is a Special Rule. The Mantle removes the latter, but does nothing to the former. So the Autarch is still a Character, and can still take part in challenges.

Ok, thank you for your reply.

Even funnier, if your reading of the rule was correct is that's if that was his only character he technicaly would not have had a warlord as it says that the warlord is the HQ character with the highest leadership!

however under characters on page 63:
Some Characters have the independant character special rule. This implies that losing the IC rule doesn't stop an autarch with the MOtLG from being a character as the character tag is a unit type not a special rule.

If you check the Autarch unit type you will see it is still typed Infantry (Characty) and it only has Independent Character listed under its special rule. So even if it loses the independent character special rule its unit type remains Infantry (Character)

I wonder why people simply did not refuse the challenge, let their character sit out and have the rest of the squad pile on the guy for at least one turn.

Might have taken him out alot faster.

A single Autarch doing challenges wouldn't be enough to win the game, I don't think. Still, what everyone else is saying is right. Is that all you thought might have been cheating?

Just to reiterate what other people are saying, "character" is a unit type. "Independant Character" is a universal special rule. All units that have independant character are also characters, but not all characters have the rule independant character.

Can the title of this thread be modified to better fit the forum rules?

what did you mean "kill the other characters, then leaving" How did he leave?

 DJGietzen wrote:
what did you mean "kill the other characters, then leaving" How did he leave?

Read the OP, specifically the underlined part:

XxBlackbirdxX1 wrote: "the bearer loses the independent character special rule, but gains hit&run..."

(Emphasis mine)

It's a pretty awesome idea. Must try it...

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
I wonder why people simply did not refuse the challenge, let their character sit out and have the rest of the squad pile on the guy for at least one turn.

Might have taken him out alot faster.

Between this and him getting over-watched every assault, i know my characters would be pretty safe =P

He has 2+ rerollable cover save overwatch won't do much. But yeah refuse challenge can help. The issue being he normally carries a laser lance so will massively hurt any 3+ save unit. He's a good unit when used against mediocre players or when used very carefully. The reason he's rarely seen at bigger tournaments is that he's a lot of points for something that is a harassment unit and only really great against soft targets or MC characters.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
I wonder why people simply did not refuse the challenge, let their character sit out and have the rest of the squad pile on the guy for at least one turn.

Might have taken him out alot faster.

Between this and him getting over-watched every assault, i know my characters would be pretty safe =P

My Characters are usually in squads with Flamers+Heavy Flamers, but indeed, he does seem quite strong. Not an "I break the game and win" model that might be gleamed from the thread though...

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
I wonder why people simply did not refuse the challenge, let their character sit out and have the rest of the squad pile on the guy for at least one turn.

Might have taken him out alot faster.

Maybe he played a lot of CSM players? At which point I doubt it was just the Autarch that gave him an advantage

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
I wonder why people simply did not refuse the challenge, let their character sit out and have the rest of the squad pile on the guy for at least one turn.

Might have taken him out alot faster.

Maybe he played a lot of CSM players? At which point I doubt it was just the Autarch that gave him an advantage

Heldrakes would eat that autarch for breakfast...no cover save against its attacks that are also AP3.

He's got a 4++ and T4, so he'll take at most 1 wound per breath. You'd need to Vector Strike him as well, and that's dedicating a lot to kill one space elf.

The Helldrake is cheaper than the Solitarch so dedicating itvto killing him for a turn is a very efficient use of points. You just need to make sure he's in combat when the Drakes arrive...

 BlackTalos wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
I wonder why people simply did not refuse the challenge, let their character sit out and have the rest of the squad pile on the guy for at least one turn.

Might have taken him out alot faster.

Between this and him getting over-watched every assault, i know my characters would be pretty safe =P

My Characters are usually in squads with Flamers+Heavy Flamers, but indeed, he does seem quite strong. Not an "I break the game and win" model that might be gleamed from the thread though...

Slightly off-topic, but what units do you have that can take Flamers and Heavy Flamers?

 Ond Angel wrote:
Slightly off-topic, but what units do you have that can take Flamers and Heavy Flamers?

Imperial Guard command squads spring to mind.

I'm pretty sure there are a couple of Space Marine squads, Sternguard maybe?

 grendel083 wrote:

 Ond Angel wrote:
Slightly off-topic, but what units do you have that can take Flamers and Heavy Flamers?

Imperial Guard command squads spring to mind.

I'm pretty sure there are a couple of Space Marine squads, Sternguard maybe?

Ahh.
I forgot Sternies could.
But I didn't know IG got Heavy Flamers.
:O

Chrysis wrote:
He's got a 4++ and T4, so he'll take at most 1 wound per breath. You'd need to Vector Strike him as well, and that's dedicating a lot to kill one space elf.

"Dedicating a lot"

Not particularly. A single solid vector strike would do wonders against him, and it's not like you have to Baleflamer the target you vector strike. Chances are the dude is the enemy warlord so it's a victory point.