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I'm really stuck on whether I should take 2 wraith squads, or a two full royal courts of destrukteks in ghost arks. I know wraiths are a forum favorite, but there's something to be said for having 5 guys with rocket launchers riding around in an open topped, av 13 transport.

Well, personally I would take wraiths, I only run one squad with a lord, but they are MVP every game, the past 4 games they have never died, and killed the following:

1 tau vehicle ( can't remember the name)
2x riptides
2x fire warrior squads
3x 5 spawn with Mark of Nurgle
1 black mace daemon prince (only because he now avoids them with his prince)
3x maulerfiend
2x obliterater squads
1 group of 10 cultists
1 full bike squad with bike sorcerer

This is all while being usually focused during shooting, and having some lucky saves, but I will swear by the status everytime

 NinjaStars wrote:
I'm really stuck on whether I should take 2 wraith squads, or a two full royal courts of destrukteks in ghost arks. I know wraiths are a forum favorite, but there's something to be said for having 5 guys with rocket launchers riding around in an open topped, av 13 transport.

Maybe playtest it a few times to see what works best with your playstyle.

For me, i used to use 9 crypteks and had some success. I have however switched over to 2 wraith squads now and I seem to enjoy the speed and assault capabilities better. The wraiths cause all sorts of ruckus and psychological mayhem with my opponents.

I have tested both and they both work pretty well, that's why it's hard for me to decide. I have a tournament this weekend, so I need to decide pretty soon. Thanks for the advice. It's nice to hear from so,done who ran crypteks so I can get a more direct comparison to wraiths.

How big of a wraith squad are you guys using?

Oh 2 full squads with 2 whip coils each and one d lord. When it comes to wraiths you really have to max them out.

You wouldn't be able to get one of each in?
(6 Wraiths (2x Coils) + D.Lord (WS, MSS, SW) & 5 Destruct-teks (1x S.Pulse) + G.Ark = 700 points)
Including required Troops and Overlord should still leave a decent amount of points remaining to spend on goodies at mid to high point level games.

Personally I would run the royal courts, but that is because I really like vehicle spam, and those S8 ap1 precision shots can deal a lot of damage. I bring destructionteks in my arks from time to time. I have gotten lucky and instagibbed a few HQs, but ususally if I get that awesome 6 I just take out a special weapon.

My vote is for wraiths, since they have a more intimidating board presence.

I do think a ghost ark full of destruct-teks might be worth investigating if you are expecting a lot of 2+ armor to show up in the tourney though.

You could also look at it this way...since Wraiths are so good right now you can bet they will probably suck when Necrons get their codex updated (in order to force existing players to buy different stuff). Whereas Cypteks and arks will probably remain useful (based on what happened to warlocks and wraith serpents in the Eldar book). Just a theory of mine.

... dude, Necrons are going to be one of the last races to get a new codex. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
(though, let's hope to Void Dragon that they give it to someone who knows how to write a balanced book next time).

 skoffs wrote:
... dude, Necrons are going to be one of the last races to get a new codex. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
(though, let's hope to Void Dragon that they give it to someone who knows how to write a balanced book next time).

The Necron codex is one of the best internally and externally balanced codexes in the game, if not the best....

Raxxamous wrote:
Well, personally I would take wraiths, I only run one squad with a lord, but they are MVP every game, the past 4 games they have never died, and killed the following:

1 tau vehicle ( can't remember the name)
2x riptides
2x fire warrior squads
3x 5 spawn with Mark of Nurgle
1 black mace daemon prince (only because he now avoids them with his prince)
3x maulerfiend
2x obliterater squads
1 group of 10 cultists
1 full bike squad with bike sorcerer

This is all while being usually focused during shooting, and having some lucky saves, but I will swear by the status everytime

Anecdotes do not make for good arguments. They are fallacious


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
... dude, Necrons are going to be one of the last races to get a new codex. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
(though, let's hope to Void Dragon that they give it to someone who knows how to write a balanced book next time).

The Necron codex is one of the best internally and externally balanced codexes in the game, if not the best....

Tau has excellent internal balance.

 Sasori wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
... dude, Necrons are going to be one of the last races to get a new codex. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
(though, let's hope to Void Dragon that they give it to someone who knows how to write a balanced book next time).

The Necron codex is one of the best internally and externally balanced codexes in the game, if not the best....

If you mean having really crappy units to balance out having borderline OP units, yes, that could be argued.
But I meant having a codex where there isn't anything broken, and there isn't anything utterly garbage.
You know, so everything's about even/worth considering taking.
THAT is what I would like to see (... unfortunately, that would require playtesting, and I'm not sure if GW considers that worth spending time or money on)

 Scipio Africanus wrote:


Tau has excellent internal balance.

Vespids......


Anyway Personally prefer the teks as everyone and there grandma plays maxed out wraiths. but since this is a tourny id say wraiths.

 skoffs wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
... dude, Necrons are going to be one of the last races to get a new codex. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
(though, let's hope to Void Dragon that they give it to someone who knows how to write a balanced book next time).

The Necron codex is one of the best internally and externally balanced codexes in the game, if not the best....

If you mean having really crappy units to balance out having borderline OP units, yes, that could be argued.
But I meant having a codex where there isn't anything broken, and there isn't anything utterly garbage.
You know, so everything's about even/worth considering taking.
THAT is what I would like to see (... unfortunately, that would require playtesting, and I'm not sure if GW considers that worth spending time or money on)

Most everything is pretty good though. Some things shifted in the edition, but for the most part just about everything is usable/good to an extent. While not everything is the most optimal, is what you are referring to. However, this is a problem with every codex, since the dawn of time.

Really, the only things are really bad are Lychguard, Flayed ones and C'tan shards. Flayed ones become significantly better with Orpheus, and Lychguard suffer more from an edition problem than being a bad unit. I used them plenty in 5th, but 6th just shifted away from their kind of assault.

C'tan shards are really the only super bad choice In the codex.

Wraiths any day. Pair it with Destroyer lord.

 Sasori wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
... dude, Necrons are going to be one of the last races to get a new codex. I wouldn't worry too much about that.
(though, let's hope to Void Dragon that they give it to someone who knows how to write a balanced book next time).

The Necron codex is one of the best internally and externally balanced codexes in the game, if not the best....

If you mean having really crappy units to balance out having borderline OP units, yes, that could be argued.
But I meant having a codex where there isn't anything broken, and there isn't anything utterly garbage.
You know, so everything's about even/worth considering taking.
THAT is what I would like to see (... unfortunately, that would require playtesting, and I'm not sure if GW considers that worth spending time or money on)

Most everything is pretty good though. Some things shifted in the edition, but for the most part just about everything is usable/good to an extent. While not everything is the most optimal, is what you are referring to. However, this is a problem with every codex, since the dawn of time.

Really, the only things are really bad are Lychguard, Flayed ones and C'tan shards. Flayed ones become significantly better with Orpheus, and Lychguard suffer more from an edition problem than being a bad unit. I used them plenty in 5th, but 6th just shifted away from their kind of assault.

C'tan shards are really the only super bad choice In the codex.

Yeah, some of the powers are just ridiculous.

Some examples:

Why give a MC entropic strike? Against vehicles it's not useful because, as an MC, the C'tan will wreck it anyway, and against MC it's also useless, because the C'tan can't leave combat, meaning that the only why ES would be useful if it dies. Considering that the C'tan is about 200 points, that's hardly a good choice.

Lord of Fire's range is too short to be of any use. In theory, it's a good melta deterrent. Until you realise that the C'tan will have to hug the vehicle you want protected for the power to be useful. Even then, it only has a 1/6 chance of working.

Moulder of Worlds is too expensive for what it does. If it had an AP then maybe, but with no AP and at average strength? Nope.

Thunderbolt and Gaze of Flame are pleasant references to the old Nightbringer C'tan. They are also very expensive for what they do.

etc, etc.

Now, I can see the reasoning behind some of the powers - Worldscape is meant to be used in tandem with tremor staves, and Time's Arrow is meant to be used in conjonction with the wraiths. That's still a lot of points to spend on a gimmick that's not even all that reliable though.

Nothing to be said for Destroyers?
Really, it's a combination of bad point pricing and the lack of options available to units that gets to be the most about the codex.
Lychguard COULD have been good, if they were cheaper, or at least had the option to mix and match wargear, or even purchase a 2+ save for the unit.
Same for Destroyers. The most upgrade obsessed guys in our fluff only have two weapon options? One of which will push the price up to 60 points for a one wound 3+ save model? That's ridiculous.
The current codex is littered with "why didn't they just do X with unit Y? Then maybe it'd be worth considering..." examples.
When I say I'm hoping for better balance, I mean I'm hoping someone goes through the book examining each entry going "you sure it should be this cost? This seems too powerful, nerf it a bit. This seems kind of meh, give it some sort of incentive to use."
It seems possible. The past few codex releases have been somewhat decent. Here's hoping they get quality control guys in for the 7th ed. codex.

 skoffs wrote:
Nothing to be said for Destroyers?
Really, it's a combination of bad point pricing and the lack of options available to units that gets to be the most about the codex.
Lychguard COULD have been good, if they were cheaper, or at least had the option to mix and match wargear, or even purchase a 2+ save for the unit.
Same for Destroyers. The most upgrade obsessed guys in our fluff only have two weapon options? One of which will push the price up to 60 points for a one wound 3+ save model? That's ridiculous.
The current codex is littered with "why didn't they just do X with unit Y? Then maybe it'd be worth considering..." examples.
When I say I'm hoping for better balance, I mean I'm hoping someone goes through the book examining each entry going "you sure it should be this cost? This seems too powerful, nerf it a bit. This seems kind of meh, give it some sort of incentive to use."
It seems possible. The past few codex releases have been somewhat decent. Here's hoping they get quality control guys in for the 7th ed. codex.

Though I do like destroyers, I do agree that they should have been 2W models. They are larger compared to the other necrons, after all.

Lychguard don't need 2+ saves. T5, 3+ and RP already makes them pretty durable against small arms fire, and the shields offer some decent protection against low AP shots.
What they do need is an assault transport, so they don't stand around for a turn getting shot after leaving the scythe.
They are meant to be the shock troops and bodyguards of the necron force, after all. They need to act like it.