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hello Dakka Community,

I played a game recently with a friend and we couldn't figure out if when the "Hit!" is rolled on the scatter dice if the whirlwind (that was out of sight) still scattered or if it just hit.
The paragraph in the book says: "Barrage weapons can fire indirectly. This means they can fire at a target that they do not have line of sight to and/or a target that is within the weapon's minimum range (if it has one). When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted from the scatter distance; unless a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast marker always scatters a full 2D6""

So If I roll a Hit! on the scatter dice does the blast template just hit or does it scatter? I have played Imperial Guard who say it still scatters on a hit so is that their own special rule or is it from an old rulebook or is it somewhere else in the rulebook because what I get from that paragraph is that it scatters full 2D6 unless a hit is rolled.

How do you guys play it?

It just hits.
Only the BS reduction is removed from the scatter, other than that it follows the rules as normal.

Any time there's a rule that causes a scatter despite rolling a hit, it always says so very directly (and refers to the arrow on the HIT symbol).
See the Artillery Bombardment rule in the Imperial Guard codex for comparrison.

"Unless a hit is rolled", it scatters the full 2d6. It's right there in the rule. You scatter a full 2d6 unless you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, in which case it's a direct hit, no scatter.

Ok thanks, we just didn't know for sure.
It helps to get some clarification from others.
Thanks!

Rorschach9 wrote:
"Unless a hit is rolled", it scatters the full 2d6. It's right there in the rule. You scatter a full 2d6 unless you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, in which case it's a direct hit, no scatter.

Close.
When you roll a hit you follow the little arrow and minus your BS.

BRB wrote:"When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted from the scatter distance; unless a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast marker always scatters a full 2D6"

Emphasis mine.

 Ond Angel wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
"Unless a hit is rolled", it scatters the full 2d6. It's right there in the rule. You scatter a full 2d6 unless you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, in which case it's a direct hit, no scatter.

Close.
When you roll a hit you follow the little arrow and minus your BS.

BRB wrote:"When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted from the scatter distance; unless a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast marker always scatters a full 2D6"

Emphasis mine.

Where does it say anywhere in the rulebook that that little arrow even exists? Much less that you should use it?
There are some Codex rules that say to do that, but not in the rulebook, and not for barrage.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Ond Angel wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
"Unless a hit is rolled", it scatters the full 2d6. It's right there in the rule. You scatter a full 2d6 unless you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, in which case it's a direct hit, no scatter.

Close.
When you roll a hit you follow the little arrow and minus your BS.

BRB wrote:"When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted from the scatter distance; unless a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast marker always scatters a full 2D6"

Emphasis mine.

Where does it say anywhere in the rulebook that that little arrow even exists? Much less that you should use it?
There are some Codex rules that say to do that, but not in the rulebook, and not for barrage.

It's telling you that you never subtract your BS unless you roll a hit! on the scatter dice.
How can you subtract your BS if there is no distance? You can't.

You'll find yourself in a minority with that interpretation, Ond Angel.

If you roll a hit, the blast doesn't scatter.

If you roll anything other a hit, it scatters the full distance without subtracting the BS of the shooter.

 Ond Angel wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
"Unless a hit is rolled", it scatters the full 2d6. It's right there in the rule. You scatter a full 2d6 unless you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, in which case it's a direct hit, no scatter.

Close.
When you roll a hit you follow the little arrow and minus your BS.

BRB wrote:"When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted from the scatter distance; unless a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast marker always scatters a full 2D6"

Emphasis mine.

So you do not follow the rules for a Hit! result, instead making up something new?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Ond Angel wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
"Unless a hit is rolled", it scatters the full 2d6. It's right there in the rule. You scatter a full 2d6 unless you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, in which case it's a direct hit, no scatter.

Close.
When you roll a hit you follow the little arrow and minus your BS.

BRB wrote:"When firing indirectly, the Ballistic Skill of the firer is not subtracted from the scatter distance; unless a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast marker always scatters a full 2D6"

Emphasis mine.

So you do not follow the rules for a Hit! result, instead making up something new?

No, I'm not "making up something new".
It's how it's been interpreted at our LGS, this is how it's been taught to me.
I wasn't insisting, I was just giving my interpretation.
I do see how you're all reading it, but I also see how my group have been reading it.
I know normal blast weapons hit on a hit and minus your BS from an arrow.

I've been under the impression that it meant "Don't minus the BS when firing indirectly. IF you roll a hit, you still scatter but you minus your BS".
You can't minus your BS (say 5) from 0 (what a hit would essentially be from your interpretation) because that would give -5 inches. We've just used the little arrow on the Hit! part of the dice since it made sense. The entire rule is one sentence, too.
If it said
"When firing indirectly, the BS of the firer is not subtracted from the scatter distance. Unless a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the blast marker always scatter the full 2D6"

Your LGS has been misinterpreting it. Look at the example right underneath the barrage rules, it explicitly shows that hits do not scatter.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Your LGS has been misinterpreting it. Look at the example right underneath the barrage rules, it explicitly shows that hits do not scatter.

I was under the impression that was for Barrage weapons with LoS.
But I can't actually see anything to say so.
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
I withdraw my original interpretation.

Much respect, Ond Angel!

I think Ond Angel has the right of it. The image in the lower portion does not make the distinction if the Barrage firer has fired directly or indirectly - it is only showing the way that the additional scatters work.

The way it's been understood and played in my LGS is:

If the Barrage weapon firer is firing directly, then it works as any other blast weapon, with the inclusion of hitting the top level of terrain, counting cover from the central location, etc.
If the Barrage weapon is firing indirectly, it scatters the full 2d6 of the scatter unless a Hit! is rolled, then it scatters the direction of the Hit! arrow and reduces by the BS of the firer.

Can any TO weigh in on this? Getting direct hits would make Biovores, Collossus, etc. substantially more powerful in my local meta.

Thanks!

Main rulebook, page 6, right column: "If a Hit! is rolled on the scatter dice, the object does not move - leave it in place..."

Nothing in the indirect fire rules override the basic rule in this instance.

citadel wrote:
If the Barrage weapon is firing indirectly, it scatters the full 2d6 of the scatter unless a Hit! is rolled, then it scatters the direction of the Hit! arrow and reduces by the BS of the firer.

Can you find a rule, anywhere in the rulebook, that ever says to use the tiny arrow on the Hit! symbol? That even mentions it exists?

There is only one rule that covers a Hit! being rolled, and that is it doesn't scatter.

There are some models that use the small arrow for orbital strikes, such as the imperial guard Master of Ordanence, however, those models specifically state so in their rules.

These are the only ones that use the small arrow.