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I brought this up in a thread and someone PMed that this does not work but I pretty sure it does.

C'Tan's ability - Writing Worldscapre - All Enemy units treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous. if already dangerous they fail the roll on a 1 or 2

Oriktan - Termporal Snares - At the beginning of the game all units that move count as moving through difficult terrain

Harbingers of Transmorgrification

Tremor Stave- All enemy units hit by a weapon with quake treat open ground as difficult terrain on their next turn.


We've been playing that this combo works. That a C'Tan w/ Writhing Worldscape works with these two combos. I hope it does otherwise whooops.


Also Drop Pods, treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous, C'Tan says any Dangerous Terrain fails on a 1 o 2.

So yeah that's the combo I've been using.

Yes, this combo works and was quite popular back in 5th. Although, now that the wound from failed dangerous terrain tests can be negated with an armor save it's become less popular

That's what I thought. I never played 5th. I just started playing 6th.

1) I don't understand the combo? What makes this amazing? Not trying to be rude, just a newbie trying to understand
2) Don't Drop Pods have to move out of dangerous terrain if they land on it? If this is so then do they go off the table and it counts as a mishap?

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
1) I don't understand the combo? What makes this amazing? Not trying to be rude, just a newbie trying to understand
2) Don't Drop Pods have to move out of dangerous terrain if they land on it? If this is so then do they go off the table and it counts as a mishap?

Making all terrain dangerous for the opponent's first turn, then at will through your cryptek's shooting.
Drop Pods DON'T have to move away from dangerous terrain, only models and IMPASSABLE terrain. They wouldn't have to move out of the board

It was great because if your opponent wanted to move his guys, he risked losing a significant portion of his men.

It works very well on Xeno armies with poor armor saves as well as armies heavy on vehicles.

Fragile wrote:
It works very well on armies heavy on vehicles.

Me and a friend were playing a double game (2v2) back in 5th ed. and he used this trick because we thought they would be fielding an assault army as they were playing Blood Angels and Orks, so his plan was to slow them down while i provided the fire support with some counter charges. They ended up playing with as many Dreadnoughts, and what ever they ork equivalent is, so we won they game because the immobilized themselves. Made for a pretty boring game, but a hilarious story.

If you would treat difficult as dangerous terrain you fail on a 2, else you fail on a 1 unless you automatically pass dangerous terrain tests.

Drop pods would fail on a 2 and be immobilised when temporal snares is active. Since they're already immobilised, they lose a hull point instead.

Also, here's the FAQ if someone says it doesn't work:

"Q: Does Writhing Worldscape cause every model moving through
difficult terrain, moving as if in difficult terrain and counting as
moving through difficult terrain to take a Dangerous Terrain test?
(p41)
A: Yes."

sonicaucie wrote:
If you would treat difficult as dangerous terrain you fail on a 2, else you fail on a 1 unless you automatically pass dangerous terrain tests.

Where the heck does it say that?

 CrownAxe wrote:

sonicaucie wrote:
If you would treat difficult as dangerous terrain you fail on a 2, else you fail on a 1 unless you automatically pass dangerous terrain tests.

Where the heck does it say that?

That's how the combo works...

If you're an infantry man under the effects of temporal snares then all movement causes you to count as moving through difficult terrain. Because you're infantry the difficult terrain doesn't count as dangerous terrain for you and thus you only take a dangerous terrain test from writhing worldscape failing on 1s.

If you're a vehicle, however, under the effects of temporal snares then any movement causes you to count as moving through difficult terrain. Difficult terrain is dangerous terrain for a vehicle and thus writhing worldscape causes you to fail the dangerous terrain check on a 2.

"Where the heck does it say that?"

In the rulebook under unit type movement rules such as vehicles.

"Vehicles are not slowed down by difficult terrain.
However... see page 71."

The only contention would be with jump pack and jet pack infantry as it does not state like other unit types that it treats difficult as dangerous but merely takes a dangerous terrain test.

How you resolve this, I don't know. But I've always been of the opinion that those units have not been properly worded to take into account temporal snares or writhing worldscape.

Temporal snares says that jump pack infantry count as moving through it, not ending or starting in it and that they only take dangerous terrain tests if they start or end in difficult terrain. You could RAW shenanigan it and tell the necron player that his tactic doesn't affect your jump / jet units if you want and only take a dangerous terrain check for writhing worldscape failing on a 1. But that technically means that jump / jet pack infantry are never affected by writhing worldscape ever again after temporal snares wears off. Infact, it would mean that temporal snares needs writhing worldscape to have an effect on jump/jet infantry.

But I'd probably want to field a different army or find another opponent if that was the case as there are already a lot of units that can ignore this tactic which costs a lot of points and very rarely makes up for it. Remember that temporal snares only lasts for one turn and tremor staves only work for the next subsequent turn.

I mean, here's food for thought, jump pack / jet pack units work on the assumption that they'll only ever be affected by terrain at the start and end of their movement phase. It's a good assumption, except temporal snares say that they're moving through it during their jump move. There is no written rule to take account of this situation.

Someone tried this on me. I told them that I only had 1 unit that didn't have Move Through Cover.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Someone tried this on me. I told them that I only had 1 unit that didn't have Move Through Cover.

Fun fact; Because temporal snares states you move the lowest D6 if you move through difficult terrain, then your units actually move slower than normal infantry because you're rolling 3 D6.

Sometimes for fairness, I let my opponent roll 2 D6 instead.

Yes but would Marines exiting out of a Drop Pod take a Dangerous Terrain check on a 1 or 2?

I know you get saves now but it's still hilarious to do this.

It wouldn't work on units that ignore dangerous terrain like bike squads w/ Khan i don't think. Otherwise it is kind of hilarious.

Also, Jetpacks and Jump Troopers are affected.. They're ending their move in difficult terrain so it counts as dangerous, models who move through dangerous terrain fail on a one or two. Correct?

Hollismason wrote:
Yes but would Marines exiting out of a Drop Pod take a Dangerous Terrain check on a 1 or 2?

Also, Jetpacks and Jump Troopers are affected.. They're ending their move in difficult terrain so it counts as dangerous, models who move through dangerous terrain fail on a one or two. Correct?

Marines disembarking would fail on a 1.

As for jetpack / jumpack troops. RAW, they don't treat difficult as dangerous. The rules for difficult terrain states that if they start or end in it then they take a dangerous terrain test which is contrasted with vehicles which states that they treat difficult as dangerous terrain.

This means that writhing worldscape only ever affects jump infantry from temporal snares. Tremor staves would not change it.

Which is annoying because most people would think that this is not the case or shouldn't be the case.

It's a if a then b equals C question though?

If A ( All Terrain Is Difficult Terrain ) and B ( All Difficult Terrain is Dangerous ) = C ( Everyone treats all terrain as dangerous) is the first Scenario

For the Tremor Staff

If A ( All Enemy Units Treat Open Ground as Difficult Ground During their Next Movement Phase) then B( All Difficult Terrain is also Dangerous Terrain for the enemy, if already Dangerous fail save on 1 or 2) then C ( Units moving make a Dangerous Terrain Check) or D ( Jet pack units or Jump Pack units ending their move in difficult terrain must take a Dangerous Terrain Check)

I don't see how you could argue otherwise.


Here's the other scenario I have a question about.
So for this scenario the following happens

C'Tan is on the Board and has the ability affecting Difficult Terrain to be dangerous.

Necron Player shoots Tremor Staff and hits a unit in a Ruin.

The next movement phase the unit moves out of the ruin and onto open ground. They would take two tests correct? Moving from one dangerous Terrain to another is two Seperate Tests ( They' Test Once for the Ruins) , ( Once for Open Ground) correct?

Although a lot of people like to say that temporal snares makes everything difficult terrain and writhing worldscape makes all difficult terrain dangerous terrain for simplicity's sake, this is not the case.

vehicle:
Treat difficult terrain as dangerous terrain

Jump/Jet Infantry:
If you start or end in difficult terrain, take a dangerous terrain check.

Temporal Snares:
If you move you count as moving through difficult terrain

Writhing worldscape:
Difficult terrain is now dangerous. Dangerous terrain now fails on 2s

Tremor Stave (Quake):
Treat open ground as difficult terrain


Temporal snares only:

A vehicle counts as moving through difficult terrain which it treats as dangerous terrain and fails on a 1.

Jump/Jet infantry only take dangerous terrain checks when they start or end in it. Because temporal snares states that they move through it, they are unaffected by it. They can get away with this RAW because jump/jet infantry do not have rules specifiying how they handle jump/jet moves through difficult terrain because it's assumed that they'd never do this.


Temporal Snares & Writhing Worldscape:

A vehicle counts as moving through difficult terrain which it treats as dangerous terrain which writhing worldscape boosts to failing on a 2

Jump/Jet infantry count as moving through difficult terrain and thus writhing worldscape causes them to take a dangerous terrain check failing on a 1


Tremor staves:

Vehicles are the same as temporal snares

Jump/Jet Infantry now count as starting or ending in difficult terrain and thus now take a dangerous terrain check.


Tremor Staves & Writhing Worldscape:

Vehicles are the same temporal snares and writhing worldscape

Jump/Jet infantry are the same as tremor staves because they don't treat difficult terrain as dangerous. They only take a dangerous terrain check. Meaning writhing worldscape has no effect on them.


This comes down to a HWYPI situation. Do you believe jump infantry should treat difficult terrain as dangerous when doing a jump pack move? I believe they should, but not everyone will and you can guarantee that a blood angel player will argue with you over it. This means that this combo which costs something in excess of 500 points to properly field becomes more difficult to pull off with the abundance of move through cover, skilled rider, cavalry, beast, ect out there with their armor saves.

The problem is this tactic was built for 5th edition and 6th edition completely nerfed it. It's fun to field and has a novelty shock factor for people who have never encountered it before. But it's really not worth the points because the majority of things that will cause trouble for you simply ignore it or have a very small chance of being affected by it.

Writhing Worldscape doesn't change difficult terrain to dangerous, it states clearly that you count difficult terrain as both difficult and dangerous.

Tremorstaff states in the movement phase you count open groud as difficult terrain. Tremorstaff is worded very clearly that you count as moving in difficult terrain, if you are moving in difficult terrain you additionally count that as dangerous terrain because of Writhing Worldscape.

Writhing Worldscape does not change terrain to dangerous, it says you count difficult as well as dangerous.

it's an addition to difficult terrain not a replacement of it.


There's no HWYI, that's a literal If A then B.

Tremorstave

You count as moving in difficult terrain, there for you are ending your move in difficult terrain. You wouldtake a dangerous terrain check.

and no I don't think it's useful , just interesting and fun.

Hollismason wrote:
Writhing Worldscape doesn't change difficult terrain to dangerous, it states clearly that you count difficult terrain as both difficult and dangerous.

Tremorstaff states in the movement phase you count open groud as difficult terrain. Tremorstaff is worded very clearly that you count as moving in difficult terrain, if you are moving in difficult terrain you additionally count that as dangerous terrain because of Writhing Worldscape.

Writhing Worldscape does not change terrain to dangerous, it says you count difficult as well as dangerous.

it's an addition to difficult terrain not a replacement of it.


There's no HWYI, that's a literal If A then B.

Tremorstave

You count as moving in difficult terrain, there for you are ending your move in difficult terrain. You wouldtake a dangerous terrain check.

and no I don't think it's useful , just interesting and fun.

While you are correct in what you say, it doesn't change the outcome.

The issue is in the wording of jump/jet infantry not with writhing worldscape. Jump/Jet infantry does not state that it treats difficult terrain as dangerous. Therefore they take dangerous terrain check for tremor staves by starting/ending in difficult terrain. But then writhing worldscape makes it dangerous which makes them take the same test with no modifier because they didn't treat it as dangerous terrain before.

Because you can't make them take two dangerous terrain checks; they only take one, so writhing worldscape has no effect on them.

Again, this is all because jump/jet moves don't have a rule that states what happens when they make a jump/jet move through difficult or dangerous terrain since it's assumed that they move over it.

Actually they take two dangerous terrain checks. If you start in difficult terrain, then end in difficult terrain it's two tests for Jump Packs I believe.

They would take the test at the end of the move not during their move and at the beginning due to the starting in difficult terrain. They land in Difficult terrain which they treat as dangerous. Dangerous rolls on 1 or 2 as Worldscape states that if you would treat that terrain as dangerous it's a 1 or 2. Jump packs treat Difficult Terrain as dangerous if they end their move in it. It's not a huge deal though really.

My question is would units take two difficult terrain checks if they were in cover and tried to move out of cover. The dangerous terrain states that if you move from one dangerous terrain to another you test twice.

I'm currently thinking

Imohtek
C'Tan
Whatisname
w/ TremorStaves

As the most annoying army to play against.

There are three reasons this isn't nearly as good as it used to be:
1. Move through cover now ignores dangerous terrain checks.
2. Failed dangerous terrain checks no longer ignore armor.
3. A higher emphasis on armies that don't need to move until late game, like Tau/Eldar.

Edit: It is very fun though!

Yeah its just a neat thing, it's not game breaking just neat.

Hollismason wrote:
Actually they take two dangerous terrain checks. If you start in difficult terrain, then end in difficult terrain it's two tests for Jump Packs I believe.

They would take the test at the end of the move not during their move and at the beginning due to the starting in difficult terrain. They land in Difficult terrain which they treat as dangerous. Dangerous rolls on 1 or 2 as Worldscape states that if you would treat that terrain as dangerous it's a 1 or 2. Jump packs treat Difficult Terrain as dangerous if they end their move in it. It's not a huge deal though really.

My question is would units take two difficult terrain checks if they were in cover and tried to move out of cover. The dangerous terrain states that if you move from one dangerous terrain to another you test twice.

I'm currently thinking

Imohtek
C'Tan
Whatisname
w/ TremorStaves

As the most annoying army to play against.

Taking 2 checks wasn't refering to moving out and then into dangerous / difficult terrain but moving out of difficult and dangerous terrain and then into difficult and dangerous terrain.

As was pointed out to me above, writhing worldscape makes difficult terrain also dangerous while tremor staves makes open ground difficult.

I assume you wouldn't make jump infantry take 4 dangerous terrain checks when moving while under the effects of both.

They'd take two though I think. Starting in and ending in.

Infantry would take 2 moving through and into new dangerous terrain.

Say you are in Ruins, Difficult Terrain. Worldscape is in play and they're hit with the whatisname rule Temporal Snares.

They'd take two tests if they moved out of that Ruin onto open ground. I think.