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So looking at the FW update for Astral claws, they have skilled rider on all of their bikes and scout on speeders. Do they seem as good as WS? i mean they are missing H&R and potential scout, but they do seem similar and give jink bonus's to allies.

This came to me when reading about the one bloke who can give hellfire rounds to anyone. I want to try that with a biker/gravgun squad to make a monster killing unit.

I'm not sure its a good trade. You lose the S5 hammer of wrath and hit & run in exchange for stubborn. Bike armies are generally frail in close combat as it is. Low numbers make them vulnerable to being swamped. Failing morale and/or using hit and run lets you mitigate this and get back to shooting at targets. It also helps you better retain mobility which is key in a bike force.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So looking at the FW update for Astral claws, they have skilled rider on all of their bikes and scout on speeders. Do they seem as good as WS? i mean they are missing H&R and potential scout, but they do seem similar and give jink bonus's to allies.

This came to me when reading about the one bloke who can give hellfire rounds to anyone. I want to try that with a biker/gravgun squad to make a monster killing unit.

Ally them in. Skilled rider stacks with WS chapter tactics.

Hit and run is just so good though. Maybe ally in individual units that have hit and run and join them to a couple squads.

I was thinking of making a MC hunting squad with a tech marine on a bike to give them Hit and Run/ khans scout. Think that is a good idea?


And the fluff thing I had in mind for it would be a sort of Deathwatch squad all comprised of Marines from chapters like the White Scars and Unforgiven's Ravenwing veterans, guys that are incredibly good bikers.

They would make great allies for WS.

They are not as good as WS at all. The loss of HnR is the biggest problem as what makes WS so great is their move, shoot, charge, HnR cycle. Not only do they do extra damage from their extra shooting or charging but they avoid the being targets during their opponent's shooting phases. Their S5 hammer of wrath, scout, and +1 to jink are just butter on top.

In fact of matter stubborn is a big negative as compared to not having it on a SM unit. You almost always want to break when a unit beats you in melee as it will allow you to shoot and charge them rather than continue to take the beating.

so an Allied detachment could be:

Astral claw master of the forge guy-145pts
8 man biker squad w/ x2 grav-guns and hellfire rounds-198pts
scout squad w/ sniper rifles-65pts
-408pts

extra tech marine/biker librarian for squad=80pts?

does that seem reasonable?

What makes Astral Claws awesome is Huron. If you're not taking The Wielder of the Totally Amazing Ghost Razors™, then just take a few chumps as allies to get the other bonuses.

For troops in the Astral Claws detachment, might be worth thinking about running some hand-to-hand scouts in a Land Speeder Storm. Just an odd idea, if you need a sacrificial tie-up unit.

Also while looking at Armenneus Valthex, I noticed it says he can give hellfire rounds to Storm Bolters.

....

I must figure out how to abuse this. I MUST.

 SRSFACE wrote:
For troops in the Astral Claws detachment, might be worth thinking about running some hand-to-hand scouts in a Land Speeder Storm. Just an odd idea, if you need a sacrificial tie-up unit.

Also while looking at Armenneus Valthex, I noticed it says he can give hellfire rounds to Storm Bolters.

....

I must figure out how to abuse this. I MUST.

TDA squads? 2+/5++ with hellfire rounds just sounds unpleasant.

 ansacs wrote:
They would make great allies for WS.

They are not as good as WS at all. The loss of HnR is the biggest problem as what makes WS so great is their move, shoot, charge, HnR cycle. Not only do they do extra damage from their extra shooting or charging but they avoid the being targets during their opponent's shooting phases. Their S5 hammer of wrath, scout, and +1 to jink are just butter on top.

In fact of matter stubborn is a big negative as compared to not having it on a SM unit. You almost always want to break when a unit beats you in melee as it will allow you to shoot and charge them rather than continue to take the beating.

Playing DA I can tell you this is so true I cannot tell you how many times I have had one marine left in combat after my opponents turn keeping me from shooting a ton of plasma at the unit he is tied up with. With stubborn it seems to always work out where you lose the last guy in your turn so your opponent gets to move to claim objectives or shoot or charge something else on his turn.

I'm probably going to play theclaws in a campaign. so I'm going to need tactics for this.

I absolutely love that obe alchemist guy. I could make psuedo sternguard with a tactical squad if I wanted to!

Just looked up that guys rules, and they are sweeeet.

Your original idea of a maxed out squad of bikes with hellfire rounds seems like the best though. That or Termies? Could tactical termies work again?

They seem too expensive and arrive too late for it. besides, a full tactical squad can put out 18 hellfire shots out of a drop pod turn 1.

How about LoTD? Wounding on a 2+ and ignores cover? No difference against meq but would be brutal murder of geq!
Would also be nice against a pesky mantle and bike equipped farseer.

Has to have Chapter tactics: Astral claws unfortunately. Still, equipped the right way and they could be bloody murder for anything, while still threatening an objective.


Another cool idea is outflanking MM/HF speeders. Maybe two squadrons of two. Hit a tank, or flame some busta's!





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I would just like to point out that Armenneus Valthex specifically changes boltguns not bolters of any sort on ONE unit plus himself to poison 2+. So unless you're prepared to convince your opponent that the twin linked bolters on your bike squad count, don't do it, however you can just cite the bolter banner of raven wing of an example of a similar rule allowing such things to happen.

Yea, my group alloes that sort of thing. Besides my plan now is to use a drop pod with guys inside.

If only sternguard cost so little!

Bolter is just another name for a Boltgun. They mean the same thing. If anyone tried to claim differently they would just be making an attempt at rules lawyering

I do a similar thing by allying WS into my DA RW. The trick is to join the independent characters to squads which do not have their unique benefits. In your case you join the master of the forge to a WS squad thus giving them a further +1 on their cover save, and join a WS IC to an astral claws squad which boost's them. I personally use a RW Command Squad with the banner of devastation with a WS captain with artificer armour etc to tank for them, and put Sammuel in with a WS command squad toting grav guns. This squad has a 2+ cover save so long as it moves and is within 6" of a dark shroud. It really helps biker armies to shine. Only one character in the unit needs to have hit and run to benefit and increased cover saves are always nice....

I would but im woried about focus fire, as the one with either the higher or lower cover save can be shot out by anyone.

You can only focus fire worse cover saves. This combined with the LoS means either the IC will not be able to be focus fire upon (WS IC w/ skilled rider unit) or will be able to LoS the wounds (AC IC w/ WS unit) if you make thes IC that can be focus fired upon a beefy chapter master w/ shield eternal etc. then focus firing gains nothing and just ensures you will be able to tank the wounds as you wanted.

I am fairly familiar with this as I mess with WS + RW armies.

ohhhh. I didnt know that! cool =3

but campaign guy said no outside allies like that