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I have a question for the DKoK players in the forum. I want to run an all infantry (no vehicles/no allies) list at the 1500 level. I've been going over the DKoK lists and I'm wondering which one would be better as both are kind of the usual hasty copy paste FW job.

Should I go DKoK Assault or Siege for pure infantry with the current lists?

M.

The Assault list would let you recycle platoons in 1500+ point games. And you get grenadiers as troops.

Well, for all infantry then The assault list is for you. Being able to recycle your dead infantry will let you swarm the enemy in bodies. Plus unlike SITNW, your DKOK infantry come back with all there war gear.

The siege list is a hasty copy and paste job. Though if you want to run a drill based army it is the only way. (obviously not for you as it is a vehicle)

The assault list is a great list with little to no similarity in how it functions or even the entries to any other IG list. Stating it is a hasty copy and paste job is pretty hilarious actually.

You can make a really fantastic forlone hope foot list from the assault list. Just take a few platoons with max special weapons in the squads. Then take some different types of artillery to fill in for your different AA, anti AV, and AI needs.

Some of the really cool things that can be done with the assault list are;

The enginseer can increase the armour penetration roll of any weapon by 1 within his range (command squad upgrade). This can be used on a quadd gun to boost it into a better AA and anti AV threat as it becomes a 4 shot, BS4, TL, Str8. The banner to increase T to 4 also can help preserve this unit behind and aegis if needed.

You will have to use rapiers for any additional AA duties as you have limited yourself from taking allies or vehicles. It isn't terrible but it isn't great either. Though with respawing infantry squads most fliers will not be the biggest threat to you anyways.

Field artillery batteries will be your friend to reach out and remove scoring units from objectives you might not be able to reach with the infantry. Also these will help with gunline fire bases which will be difficult for you to advance on. Break them up with the artillery and charge the troops into the gap as it were.

I would consider taking mostly assault weapons so you can charge opponents after shooting and get wiped out faster (and control it so your entire platoon gets wiped). This will allow you to make better use of forlorn hope. Plus lots of forward melta is not a terrible way to deal with vehicles.

The list plays much different than traditional guard as you don't take morale tests from shooting casualties and you will be trying to get platoons wiped out wholesale so you can bring them back. You also will find that giving up rapid fire and heavy weapon shooting for a charge with WS 4 an then a quickly resolved melee death to allow respawning is actually a good tactic. Only DKoK assault lists would do this.

You will be missing out on spotting LRBTs and storm chimera grenadiers. Which is too bad. The death riders are actually pretty decent though and can give some extra oomph to a list. Just make sure you play with lots of LoS blocking terrain or else they will not be able to make it to melee.

You do not have combined squads rule and you don't really want it. You want your units to get there with their special weapons/power weapon, charge, get wiped out, and then come back to claim your board again. Blobb squads are essentially the reverse of this philosophy as they try to not get wiped out. You ant as many small platoons as possible so the platoons are easier to wipe out in total (so they respawn). Also don't worry so much about spacing out. You want to reduce damage just enough to let you advance properly. Therefore spacing out can do just as much damage to that as not spacing out. You will have to find the happy medium for that game. The DKoK assault list is the very essence of attrition warfare and you are very specifically spending your models lives to cause damage and push the opponent off of tactical locations.Your greatest opponent is going to be the turn counter and not taking casualties.

The siege list is essential a bad copy job of the assault list with heavy artillery carriages added. It is outclassed in almost every by the IG codex + FW units.

Thanks for the pointers, I was thinking about the siege list when I said hasty copy paste and was not aware of the truly potential of the assault list.
Is the Fall of Orpheus the most current assault list?

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Thanks for the pointers, I was thinking about the siege list when I said hasty copy paste and was not aware of the truly potential of the assault list.
Is the Fall of Orpheus the most current assault list?

M.

Yep. It is a fantastic book. I highly recommend it.

The funny thing is the siege list is a copy paste of the assault list but without the upgrades. That is why the HQ is 100 pts and is terrible in the siege list but is awesome in the assault list, upgrades.

I run my infantry assault as 3 platoons followed by 2 grenadier squads and Venner in a pimped out command squad.

Use the platoons as the first wave to soften the enemy and then the grenadiers finish them off.

Venner is basically a lord commisar combined with a company command squad, his leadership 10 bubble helps heaps with getting off orders. I have had venner take down more than his weight in close combat, even enemy warlords in challenges.

I ally in the siege list sometimes, mainly for the lord commisar, troop engineers and cyclops.

I got a copy of the list from a friend and made a provisional list at 1500pts thinking about using Forlon Hope as much as possible. As I'm moving from regular IG I'm currently lacking Thudd-guns and Heavy mortars so I'm a little bit weak support wise.

HQ CCS with double plasma.

Troop 1. Infantry Platoon: PCS with plasma. 3*IS with flamers.
Troop 2. Infantry Platoon: PCS with plasma. 3*IS with plasma.
Troop 3. Infantry Platoon: PCS with plasma. 3*IS with plasma.
Troop 4. Grenadier Squad with double melta.

Heavy Support 1. Heavy Weapons Platoon.
LasCannon squad.
Autocannon squad.
Mortar squad.

I have 75 pts left that I don't know what to do with them. Eventually when the new IG comes out and I see how things end up I'll get some more heavy weapons (probably the regular box to convert) to improve my HW squads and/or Artillery pieces from FW.

M.

I run a bunch of PCS 2 melta, 2 IS w/ melta, 4 thudd guns w/ inquisitor, and a CCS w/ enginseer and artillery spotter, and a firestorm redoubt with quadd gun and spirit upgrades.

It is pretty brutal and has pretty good balance overall.

I don't like the plasma as you cannot shoot and charge. I also don't worry much about anti infantry weapons as I am already loading a bunch of recycling lasguns and CC attacks.

If you are going to take HWS I would highly recommend some sort of bunker to put them in as they will struggle to survive any of the mass amount of ignore cover S6+ weapons in the game today. The are much better in the DKoK list than in the IG codex though as they don't take morale for shooting casualties.

I would try to improve your anti vehicles capabilities in this list. Either more lascannon in the HWS, an ADL, or meltaguns in some of the squads. As it is you will nearly auto forfeit against any flyer based or AV13+ lists.

I have a scratchbuilt ADL in the works and Lascannons are in my buying list but no budget for them yet! but knowing my meta fortunately I'm not scared of fliers for now.


M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
I have a scratchbuilt ADL in the works and Lascannons are in my buying list but no budget for them yet! but knowing my meta fortunately I'm not scared of fliers for now.

Fair enough. You play with what you have and you would definitely know your meta better than me. My biggest suggestion would be to break the infantry platoons into the smallest increments possible. So instead of taking 3 platoons with 3 IS each try taking 4 platoons with 2 IS each. This will allow you to get them wiped out easier and give you more control. I would also try to keep the platoons together so if something goes on a killing spree it does so to the whole platoon.

The ADL could be really useful to either protect the HWS or to deploy forward and give some cover to advance behind.

Your CCS is your weakest link BTW. I fix this with a bunker to keep them in but if you want them to advance or stay out in the open then I highly recommend Venner who can split off into IS's and jump to new ones as they are shot out from under him. Also with his addition taking the banner of martyrdom is great with him as his 4 CCS unit is a fantastic sacrifice for a free VP.

Your CCS with 2 plasma and your warlord should always be first blood and if you protect it then you waste the plasma weapons (30 pts). Your CCS is set up like one that would ride in a chimera which is a much better protected unit than footslogging.

Other than Venner what loadout would you suggest for a CCS?

M.

No bunker and no Verner? A challenge huh...

I would recommend a nearly naked one to keep it cheap as possible and basically hasten oncoming reserves to the front. Hide them in some ruins near the board edge and give them an artillery officer to call down a strike and take a bullet. Perhaps take the T4 banner to make the unit a bit harder to wound. I would try to keep them out of LoS under a roof as much as possible though. IG command squads are not supposed to run up and punch or shoot people they are meant to give orders to people that do. Let the grunts catch bullets.