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So I am constantly playing a friend of mine who runs tau. The games seldom go past turn three before the writing is clearly on the wall. I brought fateweaver in the begining however it was visibly making him upset and I was getting bored with it. So I started bringing the bloodthirster and have lost ever since.

I am wondering if anyone has any non fateweaver suggestions to take out the tau. He runs a standard list generally tons of fw kroot etc. I typically do the following with some variation.

Bloodthirster
4 bloodcrushers
3 fiends
5 flamers
6 screamers
12 bloodletters
20 horrors with herald
10 plaguebearers
soul grinder

I also have been running a skull cannon occasionally. I have access to any herald blue scribes and skulltaker. I also would be open to buying a model or two.

so does anyone have any suggestions either list construction wise or ways to actually beat the tau without fateweaver? Btw I always use the grimoire and it always fails.

How much anti vehicle does he have? Soul grinders are pretty damned cool, give them mark of slaanesh and baleful torrent for a nasty quick xenos eating machine. It is one of my favorite ways to run them. The torrent will annihilate his kroot.

Looking at your list, you have too many small units. Bloodcrushers are junk these days without some sort of protection like grimoire. They are just too expensive compared for what you get.
Fiends fall into a similar category, low T multiwound hurts, no matter how fast. The reason people like hounds is they are some of the cheapest fastest point for point wounds in the book.
5 flamers can probably work well, if you can get them in position really easily, I havent used them since the new book came out.
Bloodletters are kind of wasted against Tau, try daemonettes if you want a CC troop. Personally I would bring more PB.

Try a Lord of change instead of the bloodthirster. Run him with 2 greater rewards, and 1 lesser reward for the +2S weapon. Take flickering fire and 2 divination spells. The ignore cover, and re-roll everything is awesome, but worst case you get prescience and something else. Flickering fire eats tau up, and the lord of change will be just as hard hitting in CC as the bloodthirster.

Make sure you have area terrain, I know tau can ignore it, but it still helps. Consider deepstriking some of your units. If you drop a unit of 15 plaguebearers right next to some of his units, he could be in serious trouble.

Lastly, Tau is amazing at focus fire. If your units present themselves one at a time, he can kill them one at a time. Give him 3-4 things that will be in his face turn 2 and gak will start to go down. Plague Drones are a WONDERFUL icon delivery system, even for non nurgle units. You only scatter D6, instead of 2D6 if the icon is from another god.

How dead against fate weaver are you?

Do you take any greater gifts on the bloodthirster?

Fatey would relish loads of FW and Kroot. Consider this, if you used ALL 4 warp charge on flickering fire, you would have 5D6 shots hitting on 2's! If you use the grimoire on fatey and it fails, use his one re roll a turn to get it to pass. If he's your warlord, then re rolls on the warp storm table can help you too.

Alternatively a level 3 MoT daemon prince could be pretty awesome, roll on telepathy and hope for puppet master. There's very little on the telepathy table that is bad for daemons, but always take flickering fire.

Bloodletters are terrible. Daemonettes are better and cheaper in my opinion. Horrors are also cheaper, and give you even more flickering fire.

If you're set on the bloodthirster, pack him with gifts. 2 greater and 1 lesser give him the best possible chance. But with flying daemons, you really don't want them on the ground. The greater gifts are for some it will not die and feel no pain goodness. As the thirsters issue is, he kills whatever he hits and then dies to shooting.

Otherwise perhaps ally a CSM daemon prince with the black mace. Toughness tests on most tau foot troops really upsets them!

Lord of change is close enough to fateweaver. Thanks for the feedback though but he really gets upset at the fateweaver and I want to win without it. While the lord of change is different it can still fly around and do flickering fire.

I have bloodletters as another target I tend to charge in but by the time I get to him everything has so many wounds that the overwatch from essentially everything because he clumps it all together kills me.

So what you are saying is go buy some more plaguebearers and go buy some hounds? The daemons have such a wide range of units I don't mind buying more. I feel my model selection is too elite centered.

it wouldn't be as bad without their damn "oh we are close enough to the unit you are assaulting so we will overwatch too


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Oh and he tends to bring a riptide and hammerhead

I don't understand! Does he run riptides?

I find it amusing that a tau player gets upset about a unit. They're one of the most broken armies in the game. If he's not happy with Fatey - a perfectly legal choice, then tell him you're not happy with interlinked overwatch. It can't be one rule for one, and a different for another.

I think Fatey is an auto include.

My buddy runs a full unit of beasts of nurgle with a herald i think that gives them feel no pain, could be epidemius.. They are a massive pain in my ass.
Also i commend the OP for not using a crutch. As for tau being broken i disagree, if played on the proper tables they are strong, but not really broken. This is why you rarely see them winning any big cons. LVO was space marines and Eldar on the top table. I put Daemons better than tau in their big builds.

I am not dead set on the bloodthirster by any means. I am against using fateweaver. Yea my opponent does not like him, but I have used him a bunch and want to try and winning without him and am just looking for some tips.

I do appreciate all the posts. Essentially what I am gathering is "go get some nurgle"

Nurgle is not a good answer to tau, they have a lot of good answered to deal with shrouded

You could go the Khorne dog route. Heralds of Khorne on Juggernaughts in big units of flesh hounds. With scout, you could be assaulting turn two.

Plague Drones, while expensive, could be fun as well. Send them to tie up Riptides while the dogs go after the troops.

Flying Circus could be fun as well.

Just make sure to be assaulting them as soon as possible.

Ps. Tau is not a great matchup for us. The sheer amount of Dakka the can put up is our bane. Crying about Fateweaver is a bit rediculous. Tau don't have a rule that has the potential to cripple their army.

Smart Missile Systems are a bitch to deal with as a Daemon Player especially.

Honestly, I hate how stupid the Daemon Dex is because of the lack of EW the codex lost over 5th Edition. Dumb over costed models that can be gibbed by the plethora of shooting attacks with ~72" Range and str 8 breaks the game for the Dex. Couple that with Tau and you have a nightmare. Ignores cover as well? Yup, it's like the Nazis.


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Mechnomancer wrote:
You could go the Khorne dog route. Heralds of Khorne on Juggernaughts in big units of flesh hounds. With scout, you could be assaulting turn two.

Plague Drones, while expensive, could be fun as well. Send them to tie up Riptides while the dogs go after the troops.

Flying Circus could be fun as well.

Just make sure to be assaulting them as soon as possible.

Ps. Tau is not a great matchup for us. The sheer amount of Dakka the can put up is our bane. Crying about Fateweaver is a bit rediculous. Tau don't have a rule that has the potential to cripple their army.

I hope Orks get re-done to completely gak on Tau. Have some silly rule that within 12" they cannot overwatch or something. Can you imagine the amount of crying?

So how much should I be deepstriking? I havent been deepstriking anything.

chaulmers wrote:
So how much should I be deepstriking? I havent been deepstriking anything.

Please don't DS vs Tau. Too much Interceptor will ruin your day before you can even do anything.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:

Please don't DS vs Tau. Too much Interceptor will ruin your day before you can even do anything.

Lucarikx

I disagree, interceptor can be rough but if you plan to tie up those units you can really protect your troops and get units into key positions w/ deep strikes. The correct answer is, DS as necessary and if they have unengaged interceptor riptides by turn 3 you probably lost anyway.

Flesh Hounds are very strong against Tau, as are Screamers, flamers and outflanking seekers.

My friend plays Daemons with a BT, B'lekor, 15 puppies & a hell turkey. A cultist squad, a tzneetch herald & horror squads.

The BT has two greater rewards and is nigh on unkillable. Between the pressure of the puppies & two FMC beatsticks, the buff of two greater rewards, the book & B'lekor's telepathy. Nasty

Guys, I really appreciate all the feedback! Thank you all very much.

So I should go grab some hounds, they are super expensive though! what 40 bucks for a box of 5?!?!

Get chaos war hounds from the fantasy line I mused them for all 40 of my hounds and they are plastic

 calypso2ts wrote:
Get chaos war hounds from the fantasy line I mused them for all 40 of my hounds and they are plastic

My friend use Fenrisian wolves, plus a good Khorne colour scheme, to great effect. Much cheaper too!

Both fatey and LoCs are cornerstones of competitive Daemon builds. If you opponent is running a good tau list with riptides, yet cries over your good picks, then I would suggest he reevaluate his approach to gaming.

It might be worth it just to take cheap heralds for your hq. The bloodthirster is a pretty bad unit right now - expensive, no utility, very limited ranged attack, must land to assault - and get shot to bits the next turn.

Certainly try flesh hounds, tau often have a lot of str 5/6/7 fire, but few str 8+ shots, meaning your dogs wont be doubled out very easily.

One thing that hasn't been said yet is more soul grinders. Tau are pretty limited with regards to heavy armour, and even then hammerheads only have 1 shot per turn, and fusion suits must get close. I often run 2 slaanesh torrent grinders, and one with a phlegm cannon.

Other than this, make sure your board has lots of cover.