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So, I have built a 1500 point tournement list with the daemons dex for my own take on a flying circus. I wanted to fit Be'lakor in, but after much discussion and some good advice, I have decided against it. My friends and I sometimes play 2000 points though, and I'm wondering if he fits in a list of that size. Here's my idea, let me know what you think:

2000 Pts - Codex: Chaos Daemons Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Kairos Fateweaver (1#, 300 pts, Warlord)
1 Kairos Fateweaver

HQ: Lord of Change (1#, 305 pts)
1 Lord of Change + Lesser Rewards x1 + Greater Rewards x2 + Psyker (Mastery Level 3)

Troops: Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (10#, 95 pts)
9 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch
1 Iridescent Horror

Troops: Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (10#, 95 pts)
9 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch
1 Iridescent Horror

Troops: Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (10#, 95 pts)
9 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch
1 Iridescent Horror

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince (1#, 355 pts)
1 Daemon Prince + Daemonic Flight + Warp-forged Armour + Greater Rewards x1 + Exalted Rewards + Psyker (Mastery Level 3) + Daemon of Tzeentch

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince (1#, 355 pts)
1 Daemon Prince + Daemonic Flight + Warp-forged Armour + Greater Rewards x1 + Exalted Rewards + Psyker (Mastery Level 3) + Daemon of Tzeentch

CSM ALLIES

HQ: Be'lakor (1#, 350 pts)
1 Be'lakor

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)
9 Chaos Cultists
1 Cultist Champion

Why in the hell doesn't he?

4 wounds, Toughness 5, Eternal Warrior, 4+ invulnerable save, a weapon that has armourbane and always wounds on a 2+ that is AP2 and strikes at I8, throw the grimoire on him and watch him break things, or let him use whichever power on the telepathy tree that he wants to, maybe even let him cast 3 of them.

Be"Lakor is amazing, and I find people who complain about the tax as being silly. Cultists are 50 points whoppidy doo, more importantly they are a scoring unit that can claim an objective for you. 50 points for the word scoring is a bargain.

If you listen to others you don't need Be"Lakor because you just take telepathy on everything, which in my mind is kind of stupid.

Take biomancy and get powers that will help your prince survive and break stuff, or take telepathy and maybe get things to help you, then roll to activate it, then get around deny the witch, and then hope they fail a leadership check on one of the eight things you need them to fail on.

Cast Iron Arm watch your prince survive a death ray to the face. Cast enfeeble your opponents riptide fails his DTW and then you smash him to death in one round of combat.

Back to Be'Lakor, when you are paying 355 points on a fully kitted out daemon prince, why is 350 for Be'Lakor an issue.

Be'Lakor is a game changer.

That was my theory, but surely he's just too much in 1500 points as an allied detachments. You know my 1500 point list, to fit him in I'd have to drop a daemon prince. That means losing an exalted gift and then I'm still 40 points short for the cultists, I need to start dropping EVEN MORE gifts. And I can't take him in my primary detachment as he'd then have to be the warlord, and that needs to be fateys job for the warp storm re rolls.

Unless you can find a better way of fitting him in at 1500.

But I'm assuming you like the 2000 list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the best I can do at 1500, but Iose an exalted which I really could do with...

1500 Pts - Codex: Chaos Daemons Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Kairos Fateweaver (1#, 300 pts, Warlord)
1 Kairos Fateweaver

HQ: Lord of Change (1#, 285 pts)
1 Lord of Change + Lesser Rewards x1 + Greater Rewards x1 + Psyker (Mastery Level 3)

Troops: Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (10#, 90 pts)
10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch

Troops: Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (10#, 90 pts)
10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch

Heavy Support: Daemon Prince (1#, 335 pts)
1 Daemon Prince + Daemonic Flight + Greater Rewards x1 + Exalted Rewards + Psyker (Mastery Level 3) + Daemon of Tzeentch

CSM ALLIES

HQ: Be'lakor (1#, 350 pts)
1 Be'lakor

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)
9 Chaos Cultists
1 Cultist Champion

Fateweaver 300pts

10x Pink Horrors 90pts
10x Pink Horrors 90pts

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch w/ wings,armour, exalted gift, greater gift, 2x mastery (biomancy) 330pts
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch w/ wings,armour, 2x greater gift, 2x mastery (biomancy) 320pts

Be"Lakor 350pts

10x cultists

This is the list I play for fun at 1500, you might notice that it is 1530, so in a tournament it wouldn't work, but the guys I game with don't usually have a problem throwing 30 extra points into their lists. Be'Lakor at 1500 points is a little tough to do without watering the princes down to much. Notice no portal, with three hiding troop choices, you don't need it.

Fateweaver

10x Pink Horrors
10x Pink Horrors

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch w/ Book, Greater Gift, Wings, Armour, and 2x Mastery Level (biomancy)

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch w/ Portal, Greater Gift, Wings, Armour, and 2x Mastery Level (biomancy)

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch w/ 2x Greater Gifts, Wings, Armour, and 3x Mastery Level (telepathy)

This is a list I ran in my last tournament. The last prince takes the place of Be'Lakor.

Interesting, I will stick to my original 1500 list then that you have seen.

What do you think to the 2000 point list?

It will work, but I would probably swap out the LOC for another prince, but thats just me.

How come you're not a fan of the LoC? I've noticed that you don't seem to use him in any list?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
How come you're not a fan of the LoC? I've noticed that you don't seem to use him in any list?

I like him for his T6 and extra wound, but I especially don't like his 5+ invuln. For what he does psychically Fateweaver is better. In assault Be'lakor is stronger, always wounding on a 2+ and hitting on a 3+ a 4+ invulnerable save.

I don't rush into assault either, I try to avoid assault until at least turn 3 after I have flown all over the board confusing the hell out of my opponent, but a suped up prince with gifts and biomany is going to get more done in assault than a Lord of Change.

I like the LOC and in smaller games like 1250 or lower I would probably use him as my warlord. In my opinion there are better options than the LOC n bigger games,

Hello. I think the 2000 list is good (not original, but good nonetheless). 1 point would be that the LoC has too much potential for fragility compared to another greater daemon or DP. I find a Bloothirster just slightly more survivable in a FMC list because he doesn't have to roll for his armour. A GUO is also good, as you can use him as a VERY survivable cup holder for the grimoir (because everyone will try and kill that DP with the grimoir first and normally succeed). I know he isn't flying but he doesn't need to keep up with your 4 Killy FMC's. A Lash Prince is also nice for flyer hunting.

Don't get me wrong, I love the LoC as well. I just find he dies too quickly without the grimoir (which I'm assuming will mostly be used on Fateweaver, who dies even quicker without it).

But the LoC is T6, an extra wound, and with the right gifts an utter beatstick. Plus he doesn't carry an exalted, so he has a lesser gift for the staff to make him S8 ap2 in combat insta killing t4 multi wound models. Add the divination loveliness he brings and you're laughing!

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
But the LoC is T6, an extra wound, and with the right gifts an utter beatstick. Plus he doesn't carry an exalted, so he has a lesser gift for the staff to make him S8 ap2 in combat insta killing t4 multi wound models. Add the divination loveliness he brings and you're laughing!

If I remember the staff is ap4 but it's a moot point because both the LOC and Daemon Princes are monstrous creatures and have access to smash which doubles their strength and will insta kill t4 models anyway. The LOC isn't as good in close combat as a prince is because he is WS6.

Take a chapter master for instance he is WS6 so you will hit him on 4s and he will hit you on 4s. A prince hits on 3s. Also the Prince will double out regular marines, so he hits on 3s and they hit on 5s. Hell even assault terminators something you wouldn't want the Prince fighting will hit him on 5s.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is a strategy out there that calls for you to simply avoid combat at all costs. I don't quite get it and to be honest it sounds boring as hell. Princes are amazing fighters but you fight on your terms, you don't just rush in.

You're right, it is AP4, but he's a MC, so all his attacks are AP2 anyway. As for hitting, granted marines will hit you more easily, but with divination you could take prescience...and re roll all your failed to hits anyway, you could also get precognition and re roll all your to hits, to wounds and saves!

I know smash is good, but being strength 8 has it's bonuses. Namely not having to halve your attacks!

Does Be'lakor have a place in a 2000 point flying circus?

Yes.

Sometimes you don't want to land your FMCs. Like Fateweaver, Be'Lakor has plenty of goodies to use in the air so he doesn't really need to.

Sometimes you need to kill a riptide and Belly is the man for this job. Save your bloodthirster or DP for killing 10 space marines.

How about in a 1500 point list? Does he have a place there? I can't seem to fit him in without seriously reducing the effectiveness of my DP's or LoC

Belakor is ludicrously powerful. Some people would consider that to make him "good". He certainly has a place in such a list if you are so inclined

Again, does this include a 1500 point list?

Yes. He's the Bees Knees. BEES KNEES.

I mean why wouldn't you put him in flying circus.

Cos of the cost to add him in at 1500. I'd have to remove too much decent stuff.