Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Lords: - 225 points
Lvl. 4 Wizard Lord w/ Dispel Scroll - 225 points
Lore of Life

Heroes: - 350 points
Lvl. 2 Wizard - 100 points
Lore?

Master Engineer - 65 points
Master Engineer - 65 points

Warrior Priest w/ Great weapon and Armour of Meteoric Iron - 120 points

Core: - 910 Points
Crossbowmen x10 - 90 points

Handgunners x10 - 90 points

Handgunners x10 - 90 points

Inner Circle Knights x12 w/ Full Command & Great Weapons - 330 Points

Swordsmen x40 w/ Full Command - 310 Points

Special:[b]
Demigryph Knights x3 w/ Standard - 184 points

Great Cannon - 120 points
Great Cannon - 120 points

Mortar - 100 points

Rare:[b]
Helblaster Volley Gun - 120 points
Helblaster Volley Gun - 120 Points

Steam tank - 250 Points

Total: - 2499.

So the plan is to put a cannon on either corner of my deployment for maximum line of sight and to go monster/chariot/multiple wound model, hunting. Helblaster in each half of my deployment zone to hopefully kind of control enemy movement. People in my GW are very afraid of them and try to stay away from them or devote an unnecessary amount of attention to getting rid of them.
Swordsmen block with warrior priestlines up across from enemies big block of troops and either chaffs, tarpits or eats whatever it can for as long as it can. Use lvl 4 Wzard to buff swordsmen unit and knights units.

I played against a high elf army yesterday with two lvl 2 mages, a noble on griffon, prince on star dragon, flamespyre phoenix, block of 15 reavers, two 15 man swordmaster units and 2 15 man seaguard units. I tabled him on turn 5, losing the swordsmen unit to overrun in combat with the star dragon and 1 swordmaster units. Dragon then chased down and killed one helblaster. That was the extent of my casualties. Cannons killed the griffon and both mages. Helblaster and handgunner shooting killed the stardragon. 12 knights killed the phoenix and the reavers. Sea Guard were killed to mass shooting. One block of sword masters were ground to death by my steam tank.

Overall I've had moderate success with this list, but want to improve it and maximize its potential.

Let me know what you guys have!

Wow, I'm glad you tabled your High Elf opponent. Anyone running a list that bad deserves a good tabling haha!

I know very little about Empire, however there are a few minor suggestions I can see to get the ball rolling.

Take the standard of the Demi's and make it a musician instead. Also I'm a little unsure of Great weapons on the knights?

The lore choice on the Lvl 4 is an odd one. I don't know if this list benefits very much from Life?

The list looks good, as for lore on the lvl 2, Imo I would just keep him a lvl1 of beasts (signature spell) and with points left over throw another 5 dudes in the swordsmen unit.

Life gives me a toughness boost and some good offensive magic as well as the ability to recover wounds. im still looking into the other lores.

Life is a great lore, dwellers and the T-boosting spell are fantastic. I think sometimes some people get a bit carried away with regrowth. The Swordsmen are really the only unit that you are going to be casting it in, as it's an ineffective use of PD tryingti resurrect cavalry. Have a look at shadow and heavens, I think they would benefit this list as well. As mentioned before, Beasts is a great support lore for a Lvl 1 scroll caddy simply for Wildform.

I agree that life isn't superb for this list but I think it can really help in the Demigrpyh Unit. The spell states I recover wounds, not models, so in a 9 wound unit it can certainly help.

It wont be as good as you think, as per faq when healing cav (and larger) its for every two wounds you get from regrowth is only one wound onto a cav unit.

I think with this list metal will suit you more, that or heavens. Metal for arguably one of the best nuke spells (I rate final transmutation as higher than PoShades/Dwellers, as it doesnt care about high S or I, its a straight-up 1/3 dead spell), also enchanted blades will help hellblasters immensely, Searing doom for anti heavy/monstrous cav, also giving 5+ scaly skin to swords is pretty tasty.
Heavens because aside from your cannons, you have very little to force an opponent to come to you. A couple of Comets will do that. Also rerolling ones will be perfect for cannons/demis/knights/hellblasters etc.

Lore aside, there are a few glaring problems with your list that lore wont help with.

LORDS
You have no general to speak of, and one who can kill himself with no protection to boot. You need at the very least some for of miscast protection on your level 4.
Also, a Ld8 general is just asking for trouble.
HEROES
No BSB? Get one in there, ESPECIALLY if you dont want a proper general.
IMHO, drop the warrior priest, get a captain BSB in there. Take an Arch Lector as your general.

Personally prefer halberds to swords, plus they are cheaper. Also, no point taking handguns and Xbows, take 20 of one, with a standard, that should be enough...
Also, what do you intend to do with 12 knights, that have no support? Inner circles are generally better with Lances, what you might find helpful instead is 2x5 GW knights and musicians as heavy chaff, as you have nothing right now for chaff.

Totally agree with swapping standard for musician on demis, you also might want to try squeezing in a 4th.
Mortar is next to useless now though, but YMMV.

Hope some of that helps...

Not sure what his model count is, that's why people (including me) haven't recommended anything else, but if he does, definitely get a BSB just by dropping the 10 c-bows.

Model count I have:
Karl Franz on Griffon
4 Warrior Priests on foot, 2 on Horse.
Luthor Huss on War Altar
Luther Huss on Horseback
7 Mages on Foot, 1 on Horse
4 Master Engineers on Foot, 1 on Mechanical Steed
1 Witch Hunter
3 Captains/Generals on Foot, 2 on Horseback
2 Captain BSBs
Volkmar The Grim

Core:
50 Swordsmen
40 Spearmen
40 Handgunners
20 Crossbowmen
40 Free Company
15 Knights
20 Halberdiers -20 More is next purchase

Special:
3 Demigryphs
40 Flagellants
3 Cannons
30 Greatswords
1 mortar
5 pistolier/Outriders

Rare:
3 Helblasters/Rocketbatteries
1 steam Tank


Hope that helps guys.
@Japehlio- I'm gonna build a revised list later today with some of your comments in mind. I built this list in a hurry, literally as I put models on the table before a game last week and it's 2-0 so I figured I would at least start to dice it up and improve it to maximize potential. The mortar was just put in as a points filler and is coming out. I just had the model on hand and needed to fill points quickly.

Its almost tempting just do go infantry hordes, 40 swordsmen and 40 halberds and 40 great swords and 40 spearmen, all with a warrior priest in them, a witch hunter in the GS unit along with a lvl4 any points left goes into war machines, and of course a BSB.

+++ New  (2495pts) +++
+++ 2500pt Empire 8th Ed AB and 8th Ed BRB Roster (Standard)) +++

Selections:

Empire 8th Ed AB and 8th Ed BRB (Standard) Selections:

+ Lords + (175pts)

* Arch Lector (175pts)
(Battle Prayers (AB-36), Divine Power (AB-36), Righteous Fury (AB-36))
Great Weapon (5pts), Light Armour
* Magic Items (70pts)
AB - Armour of Meteoric Iron (50pts), BRB - Luckstone (5pts), BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard (15pts)


+ Heroes + (605pts)

* Battle Wizard (90pts)
Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 1
* Magic Items (25pts)
BRB - Dispel Scroll (25pts)


* Battle Wizard (100pts)
Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 2 (35pts)


* Captain of the Empire (138pts)
(Hold the Line! (AB-32))
Full Plate Armour (6pts), Shield (2pts)
* Battle Standard Bearer (70pts)
BRB - Razor Standard (45pts)


* Master Engineer (65pts)
('Stand Back, Sir!' (AB-35), Master of Ballistics (AB-35))


* Master Engineer (65pts)
('Stand Back, Sir!' (AB-35), Master of Ballistics (AB-35))


* Warrior Priest (92pts)
(Battle Prayers (AB-36), Divine Power (AB-36), Righteous Fury (AB-36))
Light Armour, Shield (2pts)
* Magic Items (25pts)
BRB - Gambler's Armour (20pts), BRB - Luckstone (5pts)


* Witch Hunter (55pts)
(Accusation (AB-37), Grim Resolve (AB-37), Magic Resistance (2) (BRB-72), Tools of Judgement (AB-37))
Brace of Pistols (5pts)


+ Core + (635pts)

* Halberdiers (360pts)
(Regimental Unit (AB-30))
Champion (10pts), 40x Halberdiers (240pts), Musician (10pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)
* Handgunners (45pts)
5x Handgunners (45pts) (Detachment (AB-30))
* Handgunners (45pts)
5x Handgunners (45pts) (Detachment (AB-30))


* Knightly Orders (130pts)
(Swiftstride (BRB-76))
5x Knightly Orders (110pts), Lance and Shield, Musician (10pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)


* Knightly Orders Inner Circle (145pts)
(Swiftstride (BRB-76))
5x Knightly Orders Inner Circle (125pts), Lance and Shield, Musician (10pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)


+ Special + (590pts)

* Great Cannon (120pts)


* Great Cannon (120pts)


* Greatswords (350pts)
(Regimental Unit (AB-30), Stubborn (BRB-76))
Champion (10pts), 30x Greatswords (330pts), Musician (10pts)


+ Rare + (490pts)

* Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


* Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


* Steam Tank (250pts)
(Large Target (BRB-72), Random Movement (variable) (BRB-74), Steam Points (AB-51), Steel Behemoth (AB-51),

So this is a second try. What do you guys think?

I actually really like this list!

Thanks. Any critiques?

Firstly buddy, you may want to edit out those individual point values...
But, without further ado, same as last time, from the top:

Lords:
Arch Lector is good, I like the set up a lot, keep him. (-)
No Wiz Lord though? Im a big fan of a Lvl 4 with the Earthing Rod, as 9/10 times ill lose him to a miscast, not my opponent... (+225)

Heroes:
The Battle Wizards are good. For Shadow on a lvl 2, the main thing you'll be wanting is Miasma, so if you are taking a wiz lord (which we'll try and squeeze in) you might want to drop him to a lvl 1 too. (-35)

The BSB is too unprotected. Honestly, unless I have protection from other sources (natural 1+ armour/ static ward) I dont like to take magic banners, so perhaps drop it? You mainly need him for the re-roll anyway, so go for survival first: perhaps the following "Dawnstone, FPA, Enchanted Shield". put him on the corner to minimize attacks coming his way and with a re-rollable 2+ he should be ok. (-15)

The second Warrior Priest is a little surplus to requirements to be honest. If you have him just for more prayers in your second unit, you can probably drop all the gear from him. HW + Shield and corner-camping will be ok, keep him cheap! (-25)

The witch hunter is a nice little gimmick, but there is one thing you are missing. Ruby Ring. As per the faq, and every ruling I have seen since, ALL of his attacks benefit from sniper, including a bound magic missile... think about that for a minute... (+25)

two engineers is nice, but probably overkill (as will become clear later), probably drop one, in all honesty. Better to have one, who can move to be closer to whatever machine needs him. Dont worry about him being solo, people have far more to worry about than a solo engineer, and you still have a 50/50 LoS... (-65)

+++Thats 115 points saved from Heroes alone, ok, we are still up 110 points, but, onto:+++

Core.
Im assuming you have a mix of lances and GW available on knights, so since you seem to be running them as Heavy Chaff, drop the Inner Circle (no point), swap to GW, and drop standards (dont want a "free" dead knight when they break...) As a heavy chaff, or more appropriately, anti chaff, the combo of S5 and a 2+ will be fine. (-35)

Handgunners. Ugh. I KNOW they are fluffy, I KNOW they are part of the Empires' Shtick, but I also KNOW they WILL let me down. Especially 5. Save yourself headaches, drop both. Take archers (which IMHO two boxes will be far better as next purchase than 20 halberds).
In fact, drop handgunners, run a naked HalberdHorde. (-90)

Instead, 10x Archers w/ Standard (for fortitude purposes), with 2 5x archer detachments (+150)

10 Archers deploy directly behind the big units, with their 5 man detaches running in front/aside the parent. From turn one, the heavy cav goes and runs midfield interference/chaff interception. The archer detachments run their own interference, getting into place to protect your big blocks/flanks.

+++Ok, so now core is up by 25 points total, bringing us to 135 over. No matter, lets see if we can trim the fat a little here:+++

Special:
With a Stank, and being only 2.5k, I think three cannons is a bit overkill. Drop one. Use the engineer turn 1-2 to snipe out far away big beasties/counter-battery fire, use the short ranged Stank cannon to hit chariots and things that are closing in... (-120)

Ah, greatswords. They will always have a place in my heart, IMHO, they are the most Empirish thing about the Empire. And a 30 strong unit more so...
but two changes, and also a little point shaving...
Im assuming that your general, witch hunter, and/or BSB is going in here (if not general then other WP),? Drop 3 GS, which is (-33). [yay, grand total is now -18!!!]
Add a Standard Bearer, with the Standard of Discipline. As long as your general is alive and in the unit, gives you a Ld10 Stubborn bunker, with a cold blooded reroll. They aren't going anywhere in a hurry... (+25)

To find the last few points, employ the same trick as earlier and take a 39 man unit of Halberds... (-6)
Oh, and Rare is fine!

So, this COULD look something like this:

+ Lords + (400pts)

* Arch Lector (175pts)
Great Weapon, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Luckstone, The Other Trickster's Shard

* Wizard Lord, (225pts)
Lore of "Whateverthehellyouwant, Earthing Rod.


+ Heroes + (490pts)

* Battle Wizard (90pts)
Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 1, Dispel Scroll

* Battle Wizard (65pts)
Lore of Shadow, Wizard Level 1

* Captain of the Empire (121pts)
Full Plate Armour, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone.
Battle Standard Bearer

* Master Engineer (65pts)

* Warrior Priest (69pts)
Heavy Armour, Shield

* Witch Hunter (80pts)
Brace of Pistols, ruby ring of ruin


+ Core + (654pts)

* Halberdiers (264pts)
Full Comm, 39x Halberdiers (234pts),

* Archers (150pts)
Standard, 10 Archers (80pts)
-Detachment - 5 Archers (35pts)
-Detachment - 5 Archers (35pts)

* Knightly Orders (120pts)
5x Knightly Orders, GW, Musician,

* Knightly Orders (120pts)
5x Knightly Orders, GW, Musician,

+ Special + (462pts)

* Great Cannon (120pts)

* Greatswords (342pts)
Full Comm, Standard of Discipline, 27x Greatswords (297pts)


+ Rare + (490pts)

* Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


* Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


* Steam Tank (250pts)


Which, if my Maths is correct, is 2496 points. Now thats the beauty of Empire, there is no RIGHT way to run them. (personally Im a big big fan of the all Cav approact, lots of cheap 1+ characters and units can be a huge headache for opponents) but you may find that you have more success with other routes and army styles, so dont take what I am saying here as the gospel truth at all. its just my 2p...

Just pointing out that you took the luck stone twice, so maybe switch the arch lectors luck stone out for dragon bane gem.

Other then that a fantastic list that I can see going very well, the only other little thing is not having a lvl4 which isn't 100% needed considering you have 4 channel attempt from the Wp/AL/ and both wizards.

Hope all goes well and may Sigmar make your dice roll "6"s (but not for LD tests)!

Wow! @japehlio you have certainly outdone yourself on this and exceeded any expectations I had. I like your comments and think you've hit the nail on the head with the direction I was going.

To kind of touch on some of your comments:


Lords:
I stayed away from the Lvl. 4 because I couldn't find points and decided two hero versions would be sufficient. More on that later.

Heroes:
The warrior priests were beefed up because I generally see a lot of beefed up characters in combat that like to challenge and I wanted an answer for that. I will just have to task that out to the Arch Lector.
I can agree on the dropping of one Master Engineer. I'm not used to making them mobile so that will be a new concept. Not a big change though.
BSB= Agree! Easy fix, like your ideas.
Witch Hunter- I never thought of that. That is a nice gimmick and I can't wait to try it out. I have a Witch Hunter that is 100% converted and I love him so much he is a mandatory take in all of my armies. With Fireball he just got better, and will finally earn his points(which he hasn't in any of my games yet).

Core:
Agree on the Knights, as I only get the charge off 50% of the time, and am usually fighting Elves so they are gonna strike last anyhow. That always +2S will help. I do have the models.
HANDGUNNERS! I love the models, I love that people hate to be near them and I love that people hate seeing gunlines. Put I see what you're thinking with the archers. I actually am painting my Empire to a Stirland theme so the Archers actually fit that fluff better. I'll try it. Being able to move and fire will be nice, even if not as powerful in shooting.

Special:
Greatswords are actually a new addition to my army as I have NEVER fielded them before. The plan was in fact to drop the General, Witch Hunter and BSB here as a big heavy killing block so the changes to the BSB will certainly help. Again, I like your idea.

Cannons hold a dear place in my heart as not only do they wreck face but the fear factor is incredible. I also love the model and it was the first model I painted for the army some years ago. Since the Stank is actually a new addition to my list, I didn't stop to consider dropping one of the regular batteries since I've always auto-included them as a pair.

Rare:
Yes, this is also another auto-include at anything 2k or above. 2 Helblasters are a pain for anyone to deal with and by the time they devote an unnecessary amount of attention to getting rid of them they have earned their points 4x over.

I'm gonna take the list that you provided and play a couple games with it over the weekend and will let you know how it did. It's a lot of new stuff to try that I haven't before so will be a lot of fun. Nobody I play against will have seen a list like it and so it should be really enjoyable.


Now a question:
Wizard Lord. With having Beasts and Shadows already, what is a Lore you recommend? Heavens? Metal since I play Dark Elves regularly?

As I said earlier, all lores have their place with various Empire lists, IMHO It would be a tie between Heavens and Metal, or Light (plus Light instead of Shadow)

Heavens for Comet, Chain, Iceshard and Harmonic (thats your dream team)
Metail for Final T, Glittering Robe (mmm, greatswords with a 2+...), Enchanted Blades and Searing D (again, dream team)

Light, pretty much every spell is useful for you for bumping up the greatswords. Sure, you cant be ASF, but you could be I10, and Hatred, which is almost as good.

I would make the lvl4 lore of life, just because flesh to stone in addition to wildform makes for T8 warriors at 6pts per model. In addition dwellers is probably the best spell in the game, reason being for final transmutation its a straight up 5+ or 6+ for this its a T test, which can be good or bad depending on the army, and if you can get any debuffs to a units T then it makes the spell even better, not to mention the lore's attribute.

@Arbiter, that's sort of my point. I'm not denying, dwellers is great, as is Pit of shades, but just you can debuff them to be more vulnerable to them, so too can they be buffer to be tougher... Final Transmutation doesn't care, its a straight up 1/3 dead. It also has pretty solid buffs to the core of this particular army (2+ save greatswords, +1 to hit...), and solid answers to heavy/monster fave, in Searing Doom (honestly, my knights brick themselves when I hear boosted SD being cast).

Plus, its relatively low casting values, which is nice.


My main gripe with LoLife is that (dwellers aside) the spells are actually pretty mediocre without throne of vines, so that's two spells spoken of already, assuming you have both...

Very true, though as I said the main reason I love lore of life is the lore's attribute for giving a wound back, also throne of vines not only make all the other spells better (save dwellers) but ignoring IF on a 2+ and that it RIP forcing the other player to spend dice more wisely then before.

oh yeah, dont get me wrong Life is great, you're talking to the guy that dweller-ed-ed off Arielle, a BSB and about a third of a unit of White Lions at a recent Tourney...

It really is a toss up tbh, I like Life with mounted lists a lot, because even with the 2 wounds = 1 knight back, due to unit size that tends to be a bigger difference than half a dozen (at best) greatswords or halberds, plus, T7 wwith a 1+, yikes...