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Made in us
Calm Celestian




Florida, USA

Just bought the game yesterday after watching it be played for the first time! It looked like great fun. I have yet to play myself. Wanted to see what people thought of the following list:

Luke Skywalker + R2-D2 + Draw Their Fire + Shield Upgrade (37)

Biggs Darklighter + R5-D8 (28)

Wedge Antillies + R5-K6 + Expose (35)

100 points exactly.

The plan would be to fly in an inverted 'V' formation with Luke & Wedge up front and Biggs in the rear all within R1 of each other like this:


From my understanding, if an enemy could target Biggs as opposed to either Luke or Wedge, then they have to target Biggs. This would ideally have my opponent either at R3 to Biggs, while my other two pilots are at R2 or less, or they come are some weird angle to be able to hit Luke or Wedge, but not Biggs. Either way, Biggs tanks the non-crit hits for Wedge/and or Luke depending and tries to get rid of those tanked hits with his R5-D8 unit. Luke, on the other hand, would tank the crit hits for both Biggs and Wedge with his Draw Their Fire skill, which should mostly be on his shields which have been boosted and will get repaired by R2-D2. Wedge will be Target Locking/Focusing and make use of his Expose skill and R5-K6 to try to maintain both Target Lock and Focus after the first lock and be main damage dealer while both Biggs and Luke tank for him, as well as adding in their damage to contribute. The best part of this is that even as the enemy tries to disrupt my formation, I only really have to keep Wedge in R1 of either Luke or Biggs for them to tank for him (but both ideally!)

I know this is a lot of eggs in one basket kind of idea with both Luke and Wedge approaching Falcon costs in points, but what do you guys think?

There is a fine line between genius and insanity and I colored it in with crayon. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Never use expose, since it takes up an action to use it you're almost always better off just taking a focus action to boost your base attack dice. The only time it's really effective is on the new double-EPT A-wings where you can use PTL for focus + expose in the same turn. Instead you want expert handling on Wedge, since a barrel roll at PS 9 (after everyone else has moved) can take you out of arc entirely and keep your expensive ace pilot alive longer.

Also, remember two things:

1) Biggs only works if you can shoot at him. If I maneuver so that Biggs is out of range/arc I can shoot one of your other ships. This is a problem when you're trying to set up Biggs at long range with your other ships at range 1-2, if you make a mistake and leave Biggs outside range 3 then Wedge will probably die before you can correct the mistake.

2) Attempting to repair your hull damage takes an action, which means no defensive focus and no benefit if you lose all of your hull HP in one turn before you get an action. You're probably better off taking a shield upgrade and accepting that Biggs will eventually die. Your goal isn't a permanent tank, it's to get your ace ships into endgame without any damage on them, instead of getting Wedge insta-killed by a head to head pass where his superior PS and EPT options are negated.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/23 23:53:32


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Calm Celestian




Florida, USA

 Peregrine wrote:
Never use expose, since it takes up an action to use it you're almost always better off just taking a focus action to boost your base attack dice. The only time it's really effective is on the new double-EPT A-wings where you can use PTL for focus + expose in the same turn. Instead you want expert handling on Wedge, since a barrel roll at PS 9 (after everyone else has moved) can take you out of arc entirely and keep your expensive ace pilot alive longer.
Fair enough. I didn't think about Expose taking up the action, but yeah you're right. How does this sound instead then:

Luke: Same (37)

Biggs: R2-F2 + Hull Upgrade (31)

Wedge: R5-K6 + Determination (32)

This would keep my main premise, but give Biggs a little added survivability using his R2-F2's action and the additional Hull Upgrade (cheaper than the Shield) and still allows Wedge to go for Target Lock first then try to maintain it with his R5 unit and going for Focus after that. The Determination will allow Wedge to both ignore a good portion of the criticals that could affect him as well as maintaining his PS 9. I can definitely see the benefits to Wedge having Expert Handling, but that is a bit harder to do when I am trying to maintain some semblance of a formation. I will have to give that one some more thought though.
 Peregrine wrote:
Also, remember two things:

1) Biggs only works if you can shoot at him. If I maneuver so that Biggs is out of range/arc I can shoot one of your other ships. This is a problem when you're trying to set up Biggs at long range with your other ships at range 1-2, if you make a mistake and leave Biggs outside range 3 then Wedge will probably die before you can correct the mistake.

2) Attempting to repair your hull damage takes an action, which means no defensive focus and no benefit if you lose all of your hull HP in one turn before you get an action. You're probably better off taking a shield upgrade and accepting that Biggs will eventually die. Your goal isn't a permanent tank, it's to get your ace ships into endgame without any damage on them, instead of getting Wedge insta-killed by a head to head pass where his superior PS and EPT options are negated.
Fair enough to both points. I hope the above changes to my list might help with that. In my defense, both Biggs and Luke can tank for Wedge, so I really only have to keep him within R1 of either of them.

There is a fine line between genius and insanity and I colored it in with crayon. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Biggs: R2-F2 + Hull Upgrade (31)


Still kind of questionable. R2-F2 is often worse than defensive focus, with the difference depending on whether you're facing a small number of powerful attacks or lots of smaller attacks. R2-F2 isn't cheap, so you're probably better off spending those points on something with clearer value.

Wedge: R5-K6 + Determination (32)


Determination isn't very good because it doesn't do very much. It's useless if you take a crit on your shields, useless if you take a crit on your last hull point, useless if you take one of the "ship" crits, and useless if you don't take a crit at all. And even if you do discard a crit with it you're still in a bad situation with poor HP remaining, so it's questionable whether it really buys you another shot or not. If you want real durability without breaking formation then put R2-F2 on Wedge and use PTL to get a focus token as well. Now you've got 3 agility, which is likely to stop way more damage than determination, and potentially 4 if you invest in a stealth device.

and still allows Wedge to go for Target Lock first then try to maintain it with his R5 unit and going for Focus after that.


This isn't a very good plan because you aren't guaranteed to get the target lock back. If you fail the roll you get nothing, if you need to attack a different ship you get nothing, and if your target dies you get nothing. And to get this questionable benefit you have to give up points, a valuable droid slot, and the opportunity cost of taking a target lock early and not spending it immediately.

I can definitely see the benefits to Wedge having Expert Handling, but that is a bit harder to do when I am trying to maintain some semblance of a formation.


Formation flying is most important early in the game, before you can really out-maneuver anyone. Once you finish the initial pass and get in close the formation becomes a lot less important. Biggs is probably dead already, and Luke provides a bit of tank but not all that much. Breaking formation after you've "delivered" Wedge into dogfighting range allows you to barrel roll out of trouble entirely, which is a much better tank than transferring the occasional crit.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Calm Celestian




Florida, USA

Alright, changed my list up.

Luke: Same as before (37)

Biggs: R5 Astromech + Hull Upgrade (29)

Wedge: R2-F2 + Expert Handling (34)

Wedge can use either Focus or R2-F2's action early game when still in formation and then his Expert Handling when needed later. Biggs still has the Hull Upgrade to have a little more survivability and the R5 unit because I had 1 point to spend. I'm open on how to possibly spend that one (or any) point better.

There is a fine line between genius and insanity and I colored it in with crayon. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





YAAY! Were talking about one of my favorite list types: Triple X! Every player eventually comes to this one. As you continue to experiment with it try using Garven as a replacement for Luke. One interesting engine you can get running is Wedge with Swarm Tactics making Garven PS9 so you target lock with Wedge, have Garven shoot first with Focus and pass the focus to Wedge. Not top tier but it makes you think.

I fly this squadron often and never cease to enjoy it. One 'trick' I use is to set up Biggs in the opening pass at range three like has been mentioned, then move him away at a distance for a turn, let some fire hit on Luke and Wedge, then bring Biggs back to soak up a round, and keep weaving them together like that, back and forth. If they try and hyper focus on Wedge too much their plans can get seriously frustrated by Biggs's untimely re-entry to the fray. Risky if they see what to do, but fun to try.

Another Version of Triple X, "Decision Maker":
Luke, R2-F2, Stealth Device
Wedge, R2-D2, Shield Upgrade, Draw their Fire
Biggs
97pts, so still 3pts of fun to be had of your own flavor. Peregrine mentioned a ton already so try those too.

The point of this one is to carry Luke and Wedge into the mid game in a way that once Biggs is gone (or outside of range), Your opponent has to make a choice to head into the late game with. Do I shoot at optimized for evasion Luke or regenerating Wedge? Likely they go for Wedge, smart of them perhaps, which hopefully buys you time to pop off the remaining ships they have such that the ones they are left with in the end game have a super low chance of punching through Lukes Jedi Agility. The only problem it has is that Biggs dies a bit sooner. Just another thing to try.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener




Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

I use:
Luke w/ R2D2 & PtL
Wedge w/ R2 Astromech & PtL
Biggs w/ R2F2 & Stealth Device

Biggs is going to die, but I want to make my opponent use as many shots as possible to do so, I can usually (but not always) keep Biggs at Range 3 for the first volley. That gives him 5 defense dice. That is way better than a defensive focus in my mind, because the focus only helps once, the +1 agility helps with every shot. and since we still see a lot of tie swarms, that can end up with a lot of extra rolled dice. I still don't feel bad when he's pulled off the table. I know he's toast It's his job. I also know that the second X to go is probably going to be Wedge. With PtL, he's got Focus + Target Lock for each shot, and the R2 makes it pretty easy to "wash" the stress.I usually end the game with Luke being the only survivor. Luke's mini defense Focus makes him a pretty good tank, and R2D2 regenerating shields when he moves green to "wash" the stress from the PtL just makes things better. While he cannot do quite as much damage as Wedge, Luke having Focus + Target Lock for his shots means he's no joke either. My 2 cents.

pts tyranids
???? pts Imperial Guard
750 points Grey Knight Inquisitors
2500 FleshTearers
2500 pts Space Wolfs
1500 pts Eldar
Trades: Mark kelly, godswildcard, Uriels_Flame, Myrthan, Harakiri, jason2250, timetowaste85, Gav99, Alkaid
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Wedge: R2-F2 + Expert Handling (34)


This is wasted points because R2-F2 isn't really worth it compared to a focus action, and you have EH and the droid competing for your single action. To be a legitimate defensive upgrade R2-F2 needs to be your second defensive action, after getting a focus token, and that means taking PTL (or focus passing, but this is a Wedge/Luke/Biggs list). If you're taking EH then you take a generic R2 so you have tons of greens available on the turn after you barrel roll.

Wedge can use either Focus or R2-F2's action early game when still in formation and then his Expert Handling when needed later. Biggs still has the Hull Upgrade to have a little more survivability and the R5 unit because I had 1 point to spend. I'm open on how to possibly spend that one (or any) point better.


Luke, R2-F2, Stealth Device
Wedge, R2-D2, Shield Upgrade, Draw their Fire


This isn't a terrible plan, assuming the remaining points go to PTL on Luke, but it's a bit backwards IMO. Wedge has a habit of dying in one turn before R2-D2 can really help him, while Luke wants to be your regenerating endgame ship where his defensive ability keeps him alive long enough to get lots of free shield HP.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





It certainly does happen that way sometimes, but I'm pretty good about not letting Wedge die in a single turn. I've already pushed him through the break and as long as you can occasionally support him he does all right. He's got 3 shields and 3 hull, and 2 agility to bleed shots off. But flipping the two is an awesome choice too. I LOVE HOW TRANSMUTABLE THIS LIST IS We could be at this for days, I'd rather not. I'm going to try Kais list here tonight if I get a chance.
   
Made in us
Calm Celestian




Florida, USA

Alright, more modifications made:

Luke: Same as always (37)

Biggs: R2-F2 + Hull Upgrade (31)

Wedge: R2 Astromech + Expert Handling (32)

Seems silly making Biggs almost expensive as Wedge, but so be it. Unless there is glaringly wrong with this list, I think I'm going to try it out before making more adjustments.

On that note, what matchups will this type of list struggle against? If I had to guess, Dual Falcon would be one. Any other specific advice for running a list like this?

There is a fine line between genius and insanity and I colored it in with crayon. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Flew "Final Fantasy" again today. New-ish opponent flying a Howlrunner and 3 Academy Pilots plus two PS6 interceptors. Awesome turnout for me. I was using Squad Leader on Wedge as an experiment which I found to be way more helpful than I expected. If Biggs bumped, Wedge could still activate F2, or when out of pocket give Locks and Focus two his squad mates who could fire.

Can't really say what list will be a problem to fight. While the Falcons might be annoying if you fly right I imagine they'll be in trouble. Wedge alone just says 'Take these hits naow pls!' I'd say a skilled interceptor pilot or a swarm squad would be bad. But I'm no expert on the more competitive environ or on mirror faction matches.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
On that note, what matchups will this type of list struggle against?


Swarm and XXBB lists. You've got tons of firepower, but defensively you die almost as fast as 3x rookie pilots. The "three aces" lists are best against smaller squadrons where they can out-maneuver (especially with boost/barrel roll at high PS) a ship or two and pick on an isolated target. But against a squad with better numbers you focus fire and absolutely annihilate an academy pilot, and then the other 6-7 academy pilots return fire and kill one of your 30+ point ships. You just don't have the defense to stand up to a list that can just run up and gank you without really caring about your fancy tricks.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Calm Celestian




Florida, USA

Thanks guys!

There is a fine line between genius and insanity and I colored it in with crayon. 
   
 
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